Firefly and the General State of Sci-Fi... can Joss save our genre?

POSTED BY: MutantFriend
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 02:58
VIEWED: 6561
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MUTANTFRIEND

Saturday, June 12, 2004 7:47 PM

Hey all. Been coming to the site for ages. New to the boards. Huge Firefly fan since the first episode aired and yes, I was CRUSHED when it was cancelled.

OK, so I went to go see The Chronicals of Riddick. Ummmm, how you say? La poo poo? I mean it was ok in parts, but the action was a mess. The editing and cinematography were total crapola. Combine that with overbaked fx and it was just plain "hard to watch". The movie itself was Flash Gordon meets Dune - which taken in the correct context, isn't all THAT bad (well, ok maybe it is - but I like Dune and FG).

Anyway, my point is this.. .what is up with Sci-Fi these days? There's been one movie after the next coming out since '99, and what, we've had ONE classic? The Matrix. That's it. All the Star Wars prequels are sad. Just sad. Pitch Black? No. T3 was alright, but not a classic. Solaris? Ummm, nope. The Matrix sequels, while great (IMO) in their own way - can not be called "classic" simply because popular opinion actually COUNTS when determining what becomes a permenant part of pop culture. And since most of the world HATED them - well you get my point. X-men isn't really Sci-fi (IMO). Spiderman - not really Sci-fi either. Hulk, more sci-fi than either Spidey or the X-men, but just plain lame in parts.

Look, what we really need in Sci-fi today is a Lord of the Rings. Hear me out... I'm NOT talking about an epic trilogy that has an immense backstory and all that... what I mean is a movie that is sooooo goram good it breaks through to everyone. Not just fanboys and geeks. But to gangbangers, grandmas, jocks, playas, chicks, women, girls, middleaged married men, the infirmed, who-the-frig-ever. A true Oscar contender. A movie that, regardless of the setting, is a good story. One that everytime you walk by a tv and it's on cable, you have to stop, watch for at least a few seconds. LOTR is like that. FOTR came on cable last night and I caught the opening, right up until Bilbos B-Day part. What a great movie.

This is what Joss should be aspiring to with Serenity. He has the talent to write a great script, and we all know the characters rock. All he has to do is balance the ensemble aspect of things, write the way he writes... and we could have a real winner. You know, if anyone reads this and has Joss' ear - tell him what I said... shoot for Best Picture. Fudge it. Tell everyone on the cast and crew that this is the goal. What could it hurt?

I can hear some of you saying to yourselves, "Oscar schmoshcer - I want a movie for the fans and I could care less about that crap." In a way... I sympathize with those of you who feel that way very much. It's just that there is a lot at stake for us Sci-fi fans here. Hollywood sucks. The studios are factories pumping out Big Mac style entertainment at breakneck speed. Rarely are we, the movie-going public, treated to anything more than complete garbage. And it's even worse for Sci-fi fans. Which is exactly why we NEED a massive Sci-Fi hit. One, for the fans (we deserve it) and two, so the studios might think twice about making a crap movie after the bar is set at its highest level. LOTR did it for fantasy. No studio wants to be the one to put out a crap Fantasy flick after we're all used to deep story and complete, compelling characterization. It wouldn't make a dime.

Sci-fi suffers from a LOW LOW LOW bar. No one at the studios gives a crap about plot holes and crappy characters and whatnot - cause we all be use to's it. We big dumb dumbs. Pay $10 for poo poo and like it... This is what they think of us. Only Joss can change that. Please Joss! Change it. Make a Sci-Fi flick for the ages. Not because it's good Sci-fi but because it's a GREAT MOVIE.

BLINKER

Saturday, June 12, 2004 8:05 PM

Quote:
Look, what we really need in Sci-fi today is a Lord of the Rings. Hear me out... I'm NOT talking about an epic trilogy that has an immense backstory and all that... what I mean is a movie that is sooooo goram good it breaks through to everyone.

I remember a few years ago when "Dungeons and Dragons" came out, and genre websites were pleading "go see D&D, repeatedly, EVEN THOUGH we realize it's total crap... because if this movie bombs, fantasy cinema is FINISHED. FOREVER."

Heh...

_________
Sliders: Gate Haven - http://slidersweb.net/blinker

SWITCHY

Saturday, June 12, 2004 8:37 PM

I couldn't agree with you more!! If Joss allows himself to think big and be bold he has all the elements working with him to not only make the fun "firefly" movie we all know it will be but a classic contribution to the genre. That's for us to hope and not for him to think about though. Too much pressure.

MAUGWAI

Saturday, June 12, 2004 8:48 PM

I disagree with you about Pitch Black. It was surprisingly deep. It used the monster movie as a backdrop for a story about what separates humans from monsters, and how bad guys aren't always so easy to define.

Chronicles, however, lost that. So you're definitely right about Hollywood mucking everything up. When the story was low-budget, it was brilliantly done with great character development and a good, strong theme. When Hollywood took over, it had great special effects and not much character develoment at all. I've been thinking about it all afternoon, and I still can't figure out what the point of the story was. And I was so hoping it would be as good as the first, but the depth was replaced by eye-candy.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous any my sister was crazy."

MUTANTFRIEND

Saturday, June 12, 2004 10:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:
I disagree with you about Pitch Black. It was surprisingly deep. It used the monster movie as a backdrop for a story about what separates humans from monsters, and how bad guys aren't always so easy to define.

Good point. I'll admit Pitch Black was cool. The photography, Riddick, Johns - Riddick and Johns kicking the crap out of each other... BUT, it wasn't classic. In fact, it was a rip off of Alien smushed together with Escape from New York. Like I said, it's a good movie. It's just not best picture quality. Out of the last 5 years - the only Sci-fi film that even came close to that mark was the Matrix. It was, by far, the best picture of 1999. Which is why folks have never stopped talking about it. That's why my 60 year old mother has seen it. I want Serenity to be the Matrix's equal (at least)in terms of quality. Pitch Black - again - while a good movie, is nowhere near that plateau (IMO).

MUTANTFRIEND

Saturday, June 12, 2004 11:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:
Chronicles, however, lost that. So you're definitely right about Hollywood mucking everything up. When the story was low-budget, it was brilliantly done with great character development and a good, strong theme. When Hollywood took over, it had great special effects and not much character develoment at all. I've been thinking about it all afternoon, and I still can't figure out what the point of the story was. And I was so hoping it would be as good as the first, but the depth was replaced by eye-candy.

I couldn't agree with you more on your TCOR comments. I went in expecting SOME resemblance to PB... but no...

It was bad. Fun in places. But bad - very bad. I did like the crazy Jack / kyra girl. Her character was woefully defined, and her relationship with Riddick went nowhere... but boy, can she snarl and look purty.

THRAWN

Saturday, June 12, 2004 11:31 PM

Yes, but you have to realize that it isn't just sci-fi. The almighty grand majority of movies simply suck, and the proportion of sci-fi movies to the rest of movies is fairly small. If you do the math, one classic sci-fi movie in the last few years isn't that hard to believe. What do we get, maybe 2 or 3 genuine science fiction movies a year? (I'm not counting stuff like The Day After Tomorrow and comic book spinoffs.) There are more movies in just about every other possible genre per year than that. This being the same movie industry that's existed for a while, you can't expect more than 1 in every 15 of those to be genuinely awesome, much less classic. However, I'd disagree with your count anyway - I thought Minority Report was brilliant, for instance.

And you can't measure how popular a movie is by how many oscars it gets. Oscars are given to (for the flying majority, anyway) Dramatic Performances of Sad People in Movies About Sad People. (I'm not insulting the genre of drama, I'm just saying, it's the spirit of the thing.) Oscars for movies that are mostly action or mostly comedy or even nicely balanced mixtures are rare.

The three Lord of the Rings movies are the only fantasy movies EVER to be as respected as they were, and given the source material and the cultural influence it had before becoming movies, that's unlikely to happen ever again.

We don't NEED a classic science fiction movie to sweep the oscars to revitalize science fiction's place in moviedom...it never had that place to begin with. The first Star Wars trilogy maybe, but that's about it, and even that is pushing it. Science fiction is by its very nature a cult genre. While it would be nice for everyone to like it, the simple fact is it'll never happen.

Be happy that Serenity is even being made. If you hope for more, that's fine, but you can't demand it. You'll just be dissappointed.

MUTANTFRIEND

Sunday, June 13, 2004 12:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
Yes, but you have to realize that it isn't just sci-fi. The almighty grand majority of movies simply suck, and the proportion of sci-fi movies to the rest of movies is fairly small. If you do the math, one classic sci-fi movie in the last few years isn't that hard to believe. What do we get, maybe 2 or 3 genuine science fiction movies a year? (I'm not counting stuff like The Day After Tomorrow and comic book spinoffs.) There are more movies in just about every other possible genre per year than that. This being the same movie industry that's existed for a while, you can't expect more than 1 in every 15 of those to be genuinely awesome, much less classic..

I thought I said that - sort of anyway. I talked about how it was WORSE for Sci-fi fans, but true of movies in general.

Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
However, I'd disagree with your count anyway - I thought Minority Report was brilliant, for instance..

Uh, Minority Report is a good movie, but impossible to classify as classic (IMO). How many times have you watched it? I've watched it 4 or 5 times. It gets worse each time. Not that ut's bad - but a classic never looses its luster. MR was servicable at best (IMO). It was what I would consider to be a mediocre film - but because it was Sci-Fi has been elevated to a higher status - hence my point - the bar is LOW for Sci-fi movies.

Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
And you can't measure how popular a movie is by how many oscars it gets. Oscars are given to (for the flying majority, anyway) Dramatic Performances of Sad People in Movies About Sad People. (I'm not insulting the genre of drama, I'm just saying, it's the spirit of the thing.) Oscars for movies that are mostly action or mostly comedy or even nicely balanced mixtures are rare.

I guess you missed my point. I want Serenity to be SO good it crosses over. An oscar would not only be validation of said crossover, but it would legitimize a genre that gets shafted by crap writing and bad acting. Studios think FX are all that matter in a Sci-Fi film. Hence Riddick and every other crap movie they've fed us the last five years.

Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
The three Lord of the Rings movies are the only fantasy movies EVER to be as respected as they were, and given the source material and the cultural influence it had before becoming movies, that's unlikely to happen ever again.

Chronicals of Narnia might get close to LOTR quality... But again, you miss the point. My point was that no studio is going to run out and make a Fantasy B-quality movie right now. LOTR set the bar too high. It wouldn't make a dime. That's why Narnia is being handled with such care right now. People now know what they want in a good fantasy flick and great FX aint it. It's story and pacing.

Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
We don't NEED a classic science fiction movie to sweep the oscars to revitalize science fiction's place in moviedom...it never had that place to begin with. The first Star Wars trilogy maybe, but that's about it, and even that is pushing it. Science fiction is by its very nature a cult genre. While it would be nice for everyone to like it, the simple fact is it'll never happen..

It is this mindset that keeps Sci-fi dumbed down. Studios greenlight crap because of this exact thought pattern. Why is Sci-fi relagated to the wings as a genre? I hate to break this to you, but Sci-fi is the MOST popular genre that exists today. It rakes in the most cash. It rules the Box Office. It just rules it like a big dumb ape. Because Studios choose to make BAD Sci-fi films. Every single studio puts out at least one major Scifi flick a year. Men in Black. Minority Report. T3. Star Wars. Independence Day, the list goes on and on. The movies suck because the studios MAKE them suck. The scriptwrite by committee. They look at FX reels and decide a film's budget. It's crap.

Aagain. LOTR. Read what you wrote above one more time.

MUTANTFRIEND

Sunday, June 13, 2004 12:17 AM

I guess what I want is a classic Sci-fi revival. Alien, Terminator, T2, Matrix, 2001, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, ET, Close Encounters. These movies all had a story that made one's heart pump. The eye candy wasn't what mattered. It was the friggen movie. The studios have decided that the vast majority of the people living outside LA county are retarded. They make movies aimed at us - the retards. We have to stop this from happening - and Joss is our only hope right now. Lucas? Bah - fudge him. He should be put into an insane asylum for what he did. Speilberg? Maybe, but not likely. Thowy? Hah! Riddick fixed that. The Wachowskis? They will probably never make another movie. Kubrick is dead. Sodderberg blew his wad with Solaris ripping off a 4 hour Russian movie (that I actually watched). McG? Paul Anderson (the AvP guy)? Don't make me puke. Ang Lee? Nope. John Woo? Payche... (I just vomited trying to type that).

I guess maybe the only real hope for us beyond Joss is Cameron with Battle Angel Alita (or whatever he's doing). But, who knows with that guy... I vote for Joss as our Savior. He's the only one I trust out there to help our cause at all.

ECGORDON

Sunday, June 13, 2004 2:44 AM

The only hope for SF being as good in films as it is in print is if the Hollywood money boys will let the writers tell the story and keep their f***ing hands off! And I'm talking about writers like Joss, who with Serenity has a very good chance of creating a classic. And lets not forget, Tim Minear is adapting Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, which has enough plot elements to appeal to a wide range of movie-goers.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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