FFF.NET loses main source of income to support site.

POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 9, 2009 20:10
VIEWED: 48385
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SAB39

Friday, June 26, 2009 1:52 PM

Can someone explain why we're blaming the governor rather than blaming Amazon? The email from Amazon is pretty light on details about exactly what is supposedly wrong with this tax collection scheme and if it was truly "unconstitutional" as they claim then there's these little things called courts that can remedy that. And a company the size of Amazon has no shortage of lawyers.

Sounds to me like Amazon doesn't like the law and they're trying to translate that dislike into political pressure on the politician they're unhappy with.

I could be wrong - certainly governments really do do epicly stupid things all the time. But I'd expect that if that were the case they'd elaborate a little more on what this tax provision consists of and WHY it means they can't do business any more.

Either way, in the absence of further information I'm gonna assume the blame lies on Amazon here, not the state. Until someone provides a reason to believe that this tax provision really is as bad as they are claiming, anyway.

MSA

Friday, June 26, 2009 4:02 PM

HUGS Haken we're all here. Just let us know what you need us to do:)

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

YINYANG

Friday, June 26, 2009 4:08 PM

Sab- Here's an article that talks about the tax:

http://tinyurl.com/hawaiitax

It mentions that the Supreme Court ruled a similar situation unconstitutional in North Dakota.

Quote:
The U.S. Supreme Court, in Quill Corp. v. North Dakota in 1992, ruled that it was an unconstitutional burden on interstate commerce for North Dakota to apply a use tax on an out-of-state office supply company that had customers but no outlets or sales representatives in the state. The court found there must be a "substantial nexus" through a physical presence in the state to prevent the reach of state taxes from interfering with the national economy.

HAKEN

Friday, June 26, 2009 4:39 PM

Quote:
Can someone explain why we're blaming the governor rather than blaming Amazon?

Here is what someone else more knowledgeable than I about the matter wrote:

Quote:
The bill will require any online merchant (Amazon.com, Buy.com, etc) that has affiliates in Hawaii to pay Hawaii sales tax. Meaning if Amazon.com has affiliates in Hawaii they must then charge Hawaii residents 4.5% sales tax on all their purchases.

Currently Amazon.com and almost all other merchants do not charge sales tax on items sold to Hawaii residents. If this bill were to pass they would have to charge sales tax if they have affiliates. To avoid this tax many merchants such as Amazon.com will just dump all their Hawaii affiliates and advertising contracts with Hawaii residents. By doing this they won't have Hawaii affiliates and will not have to charge Hawaii state tax.

As you can see this is a not a good bill because what ends up happening is Hawaii will still not get their sales tax and on top of that they hurt Hawaii affiliates by getting them kicked off advertising network such as Amazon.com, Linkshare and Commision Junction.

So, basically, it comes down to economics. Many States need money for their coffers and see this as a means of collecting more taxes.

Amazon feels that its unconstitutional for them to have to pay a State Sales Taxes if they neither sell items out of that particular State nor have consumers who are purchasing from within that State.

I could be wrong about this and will have to look into it further, but from Amazon's perspective, the Associates are simply advertising for them and receives a commission for that advertising.

Bottom line is, come next week, I can no longer use Amazon as a means to fund the site, which is pretty annoying. We were just breaking even. So whatever expenses that needs paying will have to be paid out of my own pockets,through donations from the site members, and Google ads, which are dismal and not worth mentioning.

In any case, more later, gotta go work.

QUANDOM

Friday, June 26, 2009 5:30 PM

And now, for an off the wall response:

Let them relegalize and tax their most valuable cash crop - I of course refer to marijuana. It's possible to finance a large chunk of government that way - look at NH where the state has a monopoly on selling alcohol, and no state income tax.

Failing that, we'll tax ourselves to keep this invaluable sit alive.

CHRISISALL

Friday, June 26, 2009 5:49 PM

Haken, when ya get a chance, throw out some numbers- like as in, how much from each of us and how regularly, K?

The laughing Chrisisall

KWICKO

Friday, June 26, 2009 5:59 PM

Well, hell, Haken, I don't like the sound of this at all! One, it's screwing you, and in turn US, out of our favorite place. Two, *I* sell to customers in Hawaii who then resell to THEIR customers in Hawaii. As such, wouldn't my customers (groomers and pet supply retailers) then be required to pay the sales tax to me, and I in turn have to pay it to the state? Of is it enough that THEIR customers pay THEM the sales tax in the state?

I'm not really in any position to start charging each state's sales tax to every damn customer I sell to in that particular state, and this kind of stuff pisses me off. This isn't helping small customers; it's hindering them. It's not going to help the economy at all, either, because fewer and fewer small businesses will be able to participate in fewer and fewer states. The mega-box conglomerates will, however, still be able to compete, because they have the wherewithal to devote entire departments to keeping track of, and following, each state's ever-more Draconian rules...

Mike

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Friday, June 26, 2009 6:13 PM

Hey Haken,

I owe you and the fans here big. I'm not in a financial position to do much (yet), but I'll see what I can muster. If there is anything else I can do, don't hesitate to ask!

I am all too familiar with state legislation that imposes hardship on the citizens strictly for the benefit of the government which has failed to manage itself properly (like here in Ohio where I led to me losing my last job because the State decided it should be illegal so the Big Banks (their bedfellows) could make more money on top of their Fed bailout).

This site is too important, I believe, to too many of us. It'll take more than Hawaiian politics to kill us!

BWAH!
TCM

http://www.cafepress.com/10thcrew

*Download my Firefly Games for FREE at
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=13&t=36208&m=664612

CELLARDOOR

Friday, June 26, 2009 9:23 PM

Absolutely, let us know how we can help. These here folk are the first Browncoats I found after discovering Firefly, and there's too much history here to let it just disappear. We're waiting for updates on the situation when you have time.

GILOVE2DANCE

Friday, June 26, 2009 10:58 PM

I suggest we also let the Signal podcast know and perhaps Qmx...the Signal can get the word out so people can donate and Qmx might be willing to sponsor us or point us in a direction to some sponsors.

As Browncoats, we are notorious for doing the impossible and banding together to raise incredible funds; so throw us a number to raise and we'll start raising!!

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