Limits of State Power
POSTED BY: SergeantX
UPDATED: Sunday, December 14, 2025 21:53
VIEWED: 37205
PAGE 8 of 36
there's always the anti-goon squads - go Frem! 
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Now, I'll give that people as a whole are mentally, socially and emotionally different now than in the latter half of the 19th and early 20th centuries - meeker, more tolerant of abuses, especially those that don't affect them directly, and far less willing, hell, less ABLE, to use violence even when it may become necessary, and incompetent at it when they do, which is imho the result of social engineering to bring about that exact result.
Not totally disagreeing with ya on this one, Frem, but there's at the very least a matter of degrees. I don't think it's so much that we're collectively meeker and more tolerant of abuses, but rather that the abuses are of a much lesser degree. If your boss calls you lazy, you can pop off to him, you can quit, you can do whatever - but he most likely isn't going to give you the lash, and you aren't likely to have to work a 16-hour shift in bare feet with zero safety equipment.
And the REASON you don't have to put up with barbaric conditions like existed in the late-19th/early-20th centuries? Those very same unions that government and capitalists are quick to crush.
Mike
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Just a nod to Frem here- the right of a child to be considered a human being with his or her own will & needs & self respect- a basic right, that when removed, creates most all other of society's (& world's) maladies.
From a young age we are taught that might makes right, that fairness is in the eyes of your master, and that resistance is futile.
The serious Chrisisall
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Originally posted by SergeantX:
Yup. Economic power is dependent on government power. Without a willing, powerful government to their bidding, big money is essentially neutered.
It doesn't have to be big money. It can be any social/economic system. SignyM, for example, wants a big government which will force redistribution of wealth and power to meet her welfare-state criteria.
You and I, i suspect, don't trust that any government, no matter how created, can be garanteed to keep on the straight and narrow. Given SignyM's distrust of American government, I'm surprised she'd want to give them the power she's seemingly willing to concede.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:Hey Geez, why don't you put words in her mouth- that'll fix her!
Originally posted by Geezer:
SignyM, for example, wants a big government which will force redistribution of wealth and power to meet her welfare-state criteria.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hey Geez, why don't you put words in her mouth- that'll fix her!
Don't need to, as she says it pretty clearly herself.
"I would go so far as to say that not only should we have the right to free speech, we SHOULD have to right to speak freely to a large number of people. Either the government provides the backbone and service for free internet and media communication, or require that the telecoms and media giants provide free access on a percentage of their forums so that we ALL get to speak out, and not just be propagandized by endless cops and robbers shows and commercials."
But if you want to be fair and balanced, Chris, maybe you could snark on SignyM for putting words in Sarge's mouth as well.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:How does this foster the idea of a "welfare state?"
Originally posted by Geezer:
"I would go so far as to say that not only should we have the right to free speech, we SHOULD have to right to speak freely to a large number of people. Either the government provides the backbone and service for free internet and media communication, or require that the telecoms and media giants provide free access on a percentage of their forums so that we ALL get to speak out, and not just be propagandized by endless cops and robbers shows and commercials."
The laughing Chrisisall
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Originally posted by Geezer:
I.... don't trust that any government, no matter how created, can be guaranteed to keep on the straight and narrow.
So, you must be an violent anarchist, bent on destroying the government you hate so much... right?
The laughing Chrisisall
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there's always the anti-goon squads - go Frem!
The punisher? yer kiddin me, right ?
Morelike The Shadow, or even closer, this guy.
"I am the Whistler and I know many things, for I walk by night. I know many strange tales hidden in the hearts of men and women who have stepped into the shadows. Yes, I know the nameless terrors of which they dare not speak."
It's downright eerie just how prophetic that quote has become for me, over the years, and even more ironic since I happen to be walking midnight watches these days.
Course, I tend to whistle anime themes mostly, which has resulted in a bit of hilarity when someone recognizes them, given the stuff I watch.
Bein busted for whistling the theme to Azumanga Daioh is NOT good for scary villain cred, I tellya.
Yeah, go ahead and laugh, but when you deal with some seriously ugly stuff on a day to day basis, it's nice to see something OTHER than that, just to stay sane.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:One of the many examples of the "Government should force someone to do something, or force them to give up something they've created or earned, for the benefit of the masses" line that SignyM tends to take.
Originally posted by chrisisall:
How does this foster the idea of a "welfare state?"
Aren't you in the least bit troubled by the concept that government should force any media outlet to give pretty much unlimited airtime to anyone who asks? I don't think there are that many channels available.
Also consider - Haken, and many other folks who run fan or single-issue chat sites, provide pretty much what SignyM wants already - a place where pretty much anyone can say pretty much anything they want(not to mention a ready-made audience). As witness, this thread. Anybody with enough sense to get a library card can have internet access for free in just about any town in the US. Why do we need a government mandate to provde what's already available, if you got any ambition to find it?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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