Making Fan Film - Need Browncoat Help with Cannon
POSTED BY: bluesuncompanyman
UPDATED: Friday, July 17, 2009 14:17
VIEWED: 15695
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Paganism is not really relivant to us. Canon is. We want to do this as accurately as possible. Looking around the net I found other places where the star was point down other than the 76th battalion's site. It had (at least) become quasi-canon.
I'm now getting into a trick-bag with the film because the 76th shoulder patch will also play a role. It's star is point down. Also the standard issue trooper shoulder patch is point down. (Think of the american flag patches on shoulders of uniforms) If I fly the Independent flag point up, there will be inconsistancy with the 76th and trooper patches. If I fly it point down there will be inconsistancy with merch.
Here's an image that helps display what I'm going on about:
Which stands in contradiction to:
I need to make a call on this. This new "point up" imagery really upsets me.
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Could you canonically consider your downward pointing star a variation from the upward standard specific to your infantry?
Considering how everyone looks at the Independents as comparable to the South in the American Civil War, there's going to be a lot of homemade insignas, uniforms, banners, symbolism, etc, and the lines of communication aren't always 100%.
A deviation of one unit from the commonly accepted Independents battle standard could be just as official as something perfectly reproduced.
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This question will never be settled, but since you ask...
The issue of the canon placement for the star has been settled both in print and in public address. Shawna Trpcic, costume designer for the Firefly series, stated that the patch was sewn upside down onto the costume for Nathan Fillion's wardrobe by mistake. There is no implied or proven symbolism to the upside down star. It was simply placed on the costume upside down due to an error. This has been verified by other members of the creative forces that worked on Firefly and Serenity, including Geoffrey Mandel.
Now, will people continue to wear the star upside down? Yes. They will not only wear it upside down, but attribute all sorts of reasons for doing so. Some will say that they do this out of loyalty to Mal, but Mal did not wear it upside down. Nathan Fillion wore a coat that had the patch on wrong. Mal didn't decide anything. Some will say that it is worn this way in remembrance of Shadow or in distress for a cause lost, but it isn't. It was sewn on upside down by mistake.
There will always be two camps of thought concerning the star. Those who wear the star point up in recognition of canon and every other Browncoat in the series and those who prefer the star upside down for reasons of preference or contrived symbolism mentioned nowhere in canon.
Perhaps the question should not be 'Point up or point down?', but rather...
Browncoat or Malcoat?
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Now, with that said, the 76th has every right to wear the star as they please. Bytemite states that 'A deviation of one unit from the commonly accepted Independents battle standard could be just as official as something perfectly reproduced' and Bytemite is not wrong. Regiments, battalions, and any other corps can, and probably might, have different ways of using the color schemes, symbols and elements of the original. Therefore, the 76th patch is fine.
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Wonderful information Yellowjacket. Thank you. There become then extensions to the inital inquiry. Last night I returned home to watch both The Pilot Episode and The Message to observe the battles of Serenity Valley and Du-Khang. Frame-by-frame shots of my DVD showed me the star point down as you indeed indicated, but alas as you say this is a costume error. So what can that mean in canon? Well, here is what else I noted:
1. The patch worn by the deceased Lt. Baker had a green border.
2. Mal's had a black border.
At first I thought "Gr Arg. More inconsistancies" until my wife pointed out that therein clould lie the difference twixt an officer (Baker) and an enlisted soldier (Mal). Is there any basis for this? Has this ever been brought up?
Second Question: The Flag still poses a problem. Based on my thoughts at this moment, I'd be thinking it should fly "up" even though I've grown emotionally invested in "down". I'd propose that even though Mal's patch was an accident by Shawana Trpcic's group, it must still become 57th overlander canon since it's so obviously displayed in the series. The 76th would also be "Down" as they have made their calls on the matter. The flag of the overall confederacy of rim-worlds would then be "UP" as a nod to the orginal intent of Joss & Co. However a question of Star Color is the new issue. The flag I have aquired has a black star. The 76th unit patch is blue. I also have a blue shoulder patch. As I cast around the net I see black and blue stars in equal measure. Tristan (the CO at the 76th) told me in an email that the 76th was blue by their choice to present a unique moniker of their unit. I cannot determine the star color of Mal's patch by freeze framing my DVD's. At times I'd say it might be blue, other times I just cannot tell. Serenity Valley and Du-Khang are dark after all.
I know exactly what I'd say if I had the power to make these calls on my own. I'd say that the symbolism of point up represents the union of planets fighting for sovegnity. Point down then refers to singular units or planets. Therefore one can display a point down star in a reflection of 76th or 57th pride and point up to say "I'm a Browncoat" If that is true then the flag flys "up" in my film and the patches are displayed to the viewer as "down".
Star color is different. Blue or Black? I have an idea about it but I'm hoping to read comments on here first. Also interested in links to sites that refer to Shawna Tripcic's "point down" accident and discussions about what that now means in regards to star point intention since as you say this has been addressed in "both print and address" Links to any sites that discuss point direction and star color is highly sought for research purposes.
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Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Frame-by-frame shots of my DVD showed me the star point down as you indeed indicated, but alas as you say this is a costume error.
No, I don't say it. Shawna Trpcic said it She stated that the upside down star was a wardrobe mistake on the coat worn by Nathan Fillion only.
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
So what can that mean in canon? Well, here is what else I noted:
1. The patch worn by the deceased Lt. Baker had a green border.
2. Mal's had a black border.
At first I thought "Gr Arg. More inconsistancies" until my wife pointed out that therein clould lie the difference twixt an officer (Baker) and an enlisted soldier (Mal). Is there any basis for this? Has this ever been brought up?
It has been brought up, but only as an explanation attached to a wardrobe mistake by fans.
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Second Question: The Flag still poses a problem. Based on my thoughts at this moment, I'd be thinking it should fly "up" even though I've grown emotionally invested in "down". I'd propose that even though Mal's patch was an accident by Shawana Trpcic's group, it must still become 57th overlander canon since it's so obviously displayed in the series.
Obviously displayed on one coat only.
Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
The 76th would also be "Down" as they have made their calls on the matter. The flag of the overall confederacy of rim-worlds would then be "UP" as a nod to the orginal intent of Joss & Co. However a question of Star Color is the new issue. The flag I have aquired has a black star. The 76th unit patch is blue. I also have a blue shoulder patch. As I cast around the net I see black and blue stars in equal measure. Tristan (the CO at the 76th) told me in an email that the 76th was blue by their choice to present a unique moniker of their unit. I cannot determine the star color of Mal's patch by freeze framing my DVD's. At times I'd say it might be blue, other times I just cannot tell. Serenity Valley and Du-Khang are dark after all.
I know exactly what I'd say if I had the power to make these calls on my own. I'd say that the symbolism of point up represents the union of planets fighting for sovegnity. Point down then refers to singular units or planets. Therefore one can display a point down star in a reflection of 76th or 57th pride and point up to say "I'm a Browncoat" If that is true then the flag flys "up" in my film and the patches are displayed to the viewer as "down".
Star color is different. Blue or Black? I have an idea about it but I'm hoping to read comments on here first. Also interested in links to sites that refer to Shawna Tripcic's "point down" accident and discussions about what that now means in regards to star point intention since as you say this has been addressed in "both print and address" Links to any sites that discuss point direction and star color is highly sought for research purposes.
The canon color of the star is Blue and Shawna Trpcic's designs for the Browncoats are in the Firefly Companion, Volume One.
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I've got another question that has me stumped.
Does anyone know how to learn the name of the actor who played the "Freaked out Lt." in the Du-Khang battle scene?
He is not listed on imdb under the actors in The Message. The man has a full 4 seconds of screentime with his face in frame as he stares off into space, but there is no credit for him at all since he has no lines.
I got kinda excited at first when I saw the credit for Lt. Womak until I realized that Womak was the dirty cop character. (wrong Lt.) Grr Arg.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
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