Dollhouse prospect for renewal not looking good.
POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Sunday, April 12, 2009 09:54
VIEWED: 10934
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As a person who doesn't care for dollhouse, I'd be okay with that. Joss can do something else now. Notice how T:SCC's ratings plummeted on the friday movey.
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Originally posted by GWEK:
Although CASTLE is enjoyable, I won't be too sorry if it goes away. It's a witty show, but the mysteries are already getting a little stale, I think, and the main reason to tune in is for Fillion.
The problem is they are focusing to much on solving crimes in those stories, and not enough on the funny. If it kept being as funny as the first episode this would have been their new hit.
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Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
I disagree that Joss bears all the blame. Yes, he may have contributed some to the show's shortcomings, but, for the most part, especially the early eps, Fox has got to accept the majority of the blame.
I don't think anyone has said that Joss should bear "all" of the blame, but neither is he blameless.
(In fact--and I know this is going to make me very unpopular around these parts!--Joss is also partially responsible for demise of Firefly. Yes, FOX completely mis-handled and mis-managed, but if you read between the lines in many of the interviews and much of the commentary, and it's pretty clear that he was subversive and adversarial during much of the run of FOX. Not saying FOX didn't "deserve" it, but no matter how much of a jerk your boss is, being a jerk back is usually a good way to get fired!)
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I kept reading articles and blurbs about the number of re-writes Fox asked for in the pilot and other eps (Remember the Train Job?). I can't help but wonder how many of the early eps were complete clusterf*&^%#@ks after Fox meddling. But I thought of something even simpler than that - just like chemistry between 2 actors must click for a hit show, then too must chemistry click between a writer/director and a network.
You are completely correct. If there are tensions between the creator and the network, that will cause problems. And it takes TWO parties, not one, to create that tension.
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Fox has a penchant for shows to hit the ground running (that's why 24 has been been given carte blanche).
Joss does not write in that style. Fox knew this, and, for that matter, so did Joss.
FOX, as with every network, wants shows that are successful.
It may surprise you to know that the creators of 24 assumed that they would be cancelled (not because of FOX specificially, but because they didn't know if their concept would work). One of the reasons that the plot for the first season lurches around so much is because they were quite literally making it up as the went along, not having been expected to be picked up for a full season.
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That's why, IMO, Fox presses all of the shows considered to be "action" oriented to follow that "24" formula. Of course this does not include a show like "House." Shows like Firefly and Dollhouse are much better suited for the SciFi channel.
Well, of COURSE, FOX is going to want shows that are similar to their successful shows! Every network wants to expand on success. That's why there are so many gorram procedural crime shows on the air and not a whole lot of DRIVE knockoffs! :)
Regardless of the reality of TV programming and FOX's fault in DOLLHOUSE's failure (which, yeah, is definitely there), we can't ignore the many interviews where Joss basically said "Don't worry about it. The show gets good around episode six." No one's going to want to hang around through five BAD episodes first (not should where)!
www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."
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Originally posted by LexiBlock:
The problem is they are focusing to much on solving crimes in those stories, and not enough on the funny. If it kept being as funny as the first episode this would have been their new hit.
Interesting. I couldn't stomach 5 minutes of the pilot because it was so bad. But I watched it the next week because of Nathan, and I've been enjoying it more and more. One thing I have going for me is that I've never watched a procedural crime show until now.
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Originally posted by GWEK:
Regardless of the reality of TV programming and FOX's fault in DOLLHOUSE's failure (which, yeah, is definitely there), we can't ignore the many interviews where Joss basically said "Don't worry about it. The show gets good around episode six." No one's going to want to hang around through five BAD episodes first (not should where)!
I think part of the problem is that it hasn't gotten extraordinarily better after episode 5. Probably a lot of us were hanging around for that, and feel let down.
What I can't sux out in this, however, is if I'm being too hard on the show because it is a Joss show.
One of Joss' strengths is writing deeply layered characters. I think it must be hard to build much of an arc when part of or most of the time, the characters have no personality by definition. The actives aren't onions, they're ... bananas ... or maybe star fruit.
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I don't think it's unfair to expect something from a Joss Whedon show.
Fame is a double-edged sword.
As I've said before, without Joss's name attached to the show, how many of us would still be watching it by now? I know I would have given up after two or three episodes. (Heck, even WITH his name on it, many of my friends did.)
If we're going to give Joss (or any name, for that matter) the benefit of the doubt, it's not unfair to expect something in return. In the case of DOLLHOUSE, it goes something like this for me: "I know what Joss is capable of, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and ride out the entire season... but let's see how it goes next year, buddy..."
www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."
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Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
I don't think it's unfair to expect something from a Joss Whedon show.
Fame is a double-edged sword.
As I've said before, without Joss's name attached to the show, how many of us would still be watching it by now? I know I would have given up after two or three episodes. (Heck, even WITH his name on it, many of my friends did.)
If we're going to give Joss (or any name, for that matter) the benefit of the doubt, it's not unfair to expect something in return. In the case of DOLLHOUSE, it goes something like this for me: "I know what Joss is capable of, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and ride out the entire season... but let's see how it goes next year, buddy..."
www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."
I hear ya. Does anyone know how much Tim Minear is involved in this show (or even Joss for that matter. Of the first 8 episodes, how many has he written and/or directed?)? While I loved Wonderfalls and Drive, Tim + Joss = shiny goodness.
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To date, Joss has written two episodes and Minear one... which is not atypical for a series. It's not like Joss wrote every episode of Firefly or Buffy...
It's also not like the other writers are slouches. The writing staff includes Steven DeKnight (who worked on both Buffy and Angel), and Elizath Craft and Sarah Fain (both of whom wrote for Angel, as well as The Shield, which is one of the few shows I'd say is as good as Firefly).
Admittedly, there are a few "noobs" in the mix, but over all, it's a very strong writing staff.
I think much of the problem, ultimately, is the content. The "A-stories" of the missions are not particularly interesting, and the B-stories either involve the staff of the Dollhouse (who may be more interesting, but, let's face it, they are mostly unsympathetic) or Agent Ballard (who is okay, but currently mostly detached from the story).
Sadly, I think the show lacks "heart" (both in terms of solid characters "with heart" and a core or "heart" of the show).
www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."
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I can't stand House. The "star" British actor was an amateurish "comedian/actor" when he was on BBC every week in UK. That's what I see in House today.
If Joss were allowed to work his magic without interferance, Dollhouse would shine. "More action less wit" is the Fox half-wit formula for failure. Only 1, maybe 2 "jokes" allowed in this past week's epp.
"Co-ed showers?! No big deal."
-Dollhouse, Needs
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I don't really get everyone's issue with Dollhouse. In my opinion, it's a great Joss Whedon show without the annoying cheesyness that Buffy and Angel tended to have. I really hope it doesn't get canceled.
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