Ways to solve global warming
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Sunday, June 16, 2024 03:19
VIEWED: 6297
PAGE 8 of 13
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Let me expand on that a bit for Rap, OK Citizen ?
Energy given off by different fuels (the higher the number, the more the energy).
HHV MJ/kg
Hydrogen 141.80
Methane 55.50
Ethane 51.90
Propane 50.35
Butane 49.50
Gasoline 47.30
Paraffin 46.00
Kerosene 46.20
Diesel 44.80
Coal (Anthracite) 27.00
Coal (Lignite) 15.00
Wood 15.00
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So actually, coal and gasoline are rather LOW in their capacity to store and deliver energy.
But in terms of availability , transportability , abundance, and the means by which to USE those fuels.... taken into account, how does that list change ?
Okay, BEFORE the refineries were built, BEFORE the hydrocarbons could be "cracked" as efficiently as they are today to achieve high-octane, clean-burning (relatively, anyway) gasoline, how was gasoline in terms of availability, transportability, abundance, and teh means with which to USE it? Remember, early automobiles were mostly electric or steam-powered, because at the time there wasn't really an abundant infrastructure for gasoline.
I'm not trying to be a prick (like I have to "try"...) - I'm just pointing out that not having enough infrastructure isn't a good reason to not pursue new technologies; it's a reason to pursue new infrastructure! After all, before we had a gas station on every corner... we DIDN'T have a gas station on every corner! And they didn't magically appear overnight. They were built up over time, until it got to where you could go just about ANYWHERE in this country without having to worry about having enough gas to get back to civilization.
And yes, I'm actually old enough to remember seeing the signs on the way into Death Valley which read, "Gas Station 2 miles - Last Gas for 160 miles!" - it was like we were the latter-day Donner Party, and if we didn't gas up at that last-ditch stop, we might not be found until Spring...
Mike
just lying smiling in the dark
shooting stars around your heart
dreams come bouncing in your head
pure and simple everytime
now you're crying in your sleep
i wish you'd never learnt to weep
don't sell the dreams you should be keeping
pure and simple everytime
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Did not the oil companies themselves build the infrastructure by which made the use of their product so readily available ? It's just like anything else.... the installation of cell phone towers, for example, was done by the various phone companies. But now that the gas stations are already in place, it seems to me that basic formula for selling and distributing their product exist NOW!. A new product, it seems, would only require some minor alterations to an already existing infrastructure.
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"Frak that. I'll take my energy from the sun."
So would I - I live in a sunny place. Most people don't. MOST of the US is not in a sun-zone where solar energy is economically feasible.
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Silence is consent.
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"Did not the oil companies themselves build the infrastructure by which made the use of their product so readily available ?"
No.
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Silence is consent.
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Quote:No.
Did not the oil companies themselves build the infrastructure by which made the use of their product so readily available ?
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Did not the oil companies themselves build the infrastructure by which made the use of their product so readily available ? It's just like anything else.... the installation of cell phone towers, for example, was done by the various phone companies. But now that the gas stations are already in place, it seems to me that basic formula for selling and distributing their product exist NOW!. A new product, it seems, would only require some minor alterations to an already existing infrastructure.
Mmmm-Kay, since part one of your question has been answered already by Rue & Sig, let's look at the other parts.
Did you think that I meant that the government should build the infrastructure for hydrogen fuel cells, solar, etc.? I didn't intend to come across that way at all. No, I'd rather use those good old tried and true tactics that even conservatives seem to love - tax abatement and deregulation. In other words, offering tax breaks to companies who WILL build alt-energy infrastructure (such as hydrogen refueling stations or electric recharging stations, or solar, wind, ocean current, or geothermal power plants) while at the same time relaxing some of the regulations that have thus far kept them economically uncompetitive with "traditional" energy sources - which have, of course, lobbied long and hard to have just those rules put in place that WILL disadvantage anyone who tries to horn in on their energy racket!
In other words, let's let capitalism help build the infrastructure.
Just a something to ponder...
Mike
just lying smiling in the dark
shooting stars around your heart
dreams come bouncing in your head
pure and simple everytime
now you're crying in your sleep
i wish you'd never learnt to weep
don't sell the dreams you should be keeping
pure and simple everytime
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Did not the oil companies themselves build the infrastructure by which made the use of their product so readily available ?"
No.
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Silence is consent.
Umm... yes, they did. Unless you want to add into the mix the public roads, which is sort of a silly argument.
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Umm, you DO know that initially Gasoline was in fact, toxic waste, right ?
It was a byproduct of Kerosene production which had little use and was mostly just disposed of till some enterprising folk decided to use it in ottos engine, and things went from there.
And those companies have their own laundry list of dirty business, not the least of which was the damage done by TEL (Ethyl) and MBTE, although environmentalist do-gooders share part of the blame for the latter since they pushed it without thinking it through or sufficient research on it's impact and the resulting problems and cleanup did more harm than good.
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=932
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetra-ethyl_lead
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBE
Of particular interest to Rue and Siggy, I think, would be an aftermath impact study of TEL's resultant environmental lead exposure as regards aberrant behavior and crime trends.
http://www.amherst.edu/~jwreyes/papers/LeadCrimeNBERWP13097.pdf
So if we DO built a new infrastructure on alternative fuel sources, let's make sure to be involved, think it through, and do the freakin research before charging in willy nilly, ok ?
Measure twice, cut only once.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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"Umm... yes, they did."
Umm... no, they didn't.
I was looking up specific refineries.
For example, the Chevron refinery built ~1918 in El Segundo made use of oil terminals built by the City of LA in the Port of LA. It received both tax breaks and subsidies, engaged in schemes to defraud taxes (at all levels), spilled a quarter of a billion gallons of product into the local aquifer (taxpayer mitigation), and somewhere I read that it used the services of a rail company that got significant public funds. I'm trying to find that name, it was something like PE. This was not a case of 'free enterprise and business paying its own way'.
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People who remediate that stuff have nicknamed it and related species Methyl-Ethyl-Death. Very nasty.
Of course, all the additives in gasoline are pretty toxic. Benzene, Toluene, EthylBenzene, Xylene, Naphthalene... Neurotoxins and cancer by contact. I know people who won't go near the stuff without haz-mat suits and oxygen tanks.
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