Dollhouse prospect for renewal not looking good.

POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Sunday, April 12, 2009 09:54
VIEWED: 10934
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PACHELBEL

Thursday, April 2, 2009 3:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cozen:
Hate to say it, but it's clear that Castle has already become formulaic and repetitive. Fillion's attractive performance just can't hide the fact that this schtick has been done before, and doesn't add anything new to the wants of a bored audience.

As for Dollhouse, for all that it is NOT formulaic and repetitive, I fear that it has already become too intellectual for the lcd common viewer that best gives hard-ons to wealthy advertisers. There's too much thinking required in resolving the nuances of Dollhouse plots, and that doesn't work well against the feral gambling hit offered by NCAA basketball and the raw sexual stereotyping that is so prevalent in "reality" shows.

The nerds get Dollhouse, for all of it's open-ended plotting. Sadly, the nerds are a small percentage of the advertisers' targeted audience, who won't pay off on the investment until the phenominal dvd sales demonstrate that, oh, this was a sellable show after all, huh.

***
This post brought to you by one who would be immensely glad to be proven stoopid.

Or it could be that it's just not very good. Based on the comments regarding the show that have been posted here, the feelings are mixed. That certainly wasn't the experience with Firefly, nor with Buffy or Angel I think.

I believe Firefly may be a once in a lifetime experience, but I also think it's safe to say this is Whedon's worst effort by far.

I've actually started enjoying Castle. I could only stomach 5 minutes of the pilot but Nathan is fun to watch. I've never watched a cop show before, so I'm not burdened with the formulaic nature of it.

DANALYNN26

Thursday, April 2, 2009 3:28 AM

I hope dollhouse comes back. I didn't instantly love it like Joss's other show but it has grown on me. I really liked the man on the street episode.

It is so sad they are they are cancelling Guiding Light. I have watched that show since I was a little kid, my Grandma and I used to watch it together.

PHOENIXSHIP

Thursday, April 2, 2009 3:32 AM

Yeah, some of what you say is true, but for me the bottom line is - once again F*x is aborting a quality show that needs a season or two to really get things going. They're like an indecisive bride who marries a man and gives up after just a few months, then tries it again. These things take time... It's idiotic to the extreme. They go to the trouble and expense of starting up a production, then just after it pops out of the gate, they chop it off at the knees. It's corporate anti-creativity at its worst.

I must say, I've been watching with one eye, waiting for them to cancel it. What the hell, we could use at least one more reality show about shouting cooks or supernannies.

We suck.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, April 2, 2009 12:33 PM

I have yet to be able to stay awake through an entire episode of Dollhouse. To me it's always a bit boring, and I guess I just never bought into the entire premise of the show anyhow. I do like Eliza however, and I'd love to see her in the Serenity sequel.

GWEK

Thursday, April 2, 2009 1:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenixship:
once again F*x is aborting a quality show that needs a season or two to really get things going.

But see, that's not how TV works... nor should it be. If a TV show needs a full season "to really get things going," it SHOULD be cancelled, because it's a BAD TV show!

I think it's equally silly to give a show only 2-5 episodes to find its audience, but the sad reality is that if a show can'd find itself in that time period, it's probably never going to (short of a big "venue" change, like switching to a night that favors a demographic or a different network).

In the case of DOLLHOUSE, the fan and critical buzz has been mixed at best, painting a VERY different picture than something like FIREFLY.

The problem with starting to get good at episode 6 is that many people have already tuned out some time during the first five (non-good) episodes.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

PHOENIXSHIP

Thursday, April 2, 2009 5:19 PM

Here's the analogy that pops into my mind: When you start a new job, you need time to learn things, get to know people, etc. If it's a job of any complexity, it will take months to fit in.

Now imagine a TV show. Everybody is "the new guy". Each episode must be finished in 7 days. I'm sure it's controlled chaos. Characters are written for/developed. Plots are planned/foreshadowed. Things become clear only through the magic of TIME.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the reality of the situation. I'm just bemoaning the short attention span we seem to have in this country. I think we can agree that given time, any Joss show will improve continuously, and eventually become excellent. You just know he's got webs of stories in his head with all kinds of weird interactions. It just takes time to lay the groundwork.

I suppose I am also feeling manipulated by F*x. If Dollhouse gets the ax, I'm going to feel like I've been suckered twice. I know I shouldn't take it personally, but I hate it when the forces of ignorance triumph. And to top it all off, Terminator will likely get cancelled. I know it's been uneven, but again, with time, I think they could develop a really interesting mythology. Oh well, I should read more anyway.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

GWEK

Thursday, April 2, 2009 6:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenixship:
Here's the analogy that pops into my mind: When you start a new job, you need time to learn things, get to know people, etc. If it's a job of any complexity, it will take months to fit in.

But it's often apparent from the first few days if someone will work out or not. Sometimes, it's just a bad fit, and if that's recognized early on, it's really a mercy to end it quickly.

Quote:
Now imagine a TV show. Everybody is "the new guy". Each episode must be finished in 7 days. I'm sure it's controlled chaos. Characters are written for/developed. Plots are planned/foreshadowed. Things become clear only through the magic of TIME.

But the element that you're forgetting here is GOOD WRITING. The magic of GOOD WRITING means that while the story will unfold over time, it should still be compelling from the beginning. (At least compelling enough to make people come back enough times to get to the really good stuff).

Before the first scene is filmed, before the series is picked up, indeed, quite possibly before the idea is even pitched to the network, the creator has an idea where the story will go.

A good creator supported by a skilled writing staff, will have an agenda that, yes, will be thrown periodically by network execs or scheduling problems, but, overall, the basics of the story are laid out weeks or months in advance.

Quote:
I don't disagree with your assessment of the reality of the situation. I'm just bemoaning the short attention span we seem to have in this country. I think we can agree that given time, any Joss show will improve continuously, and eventually become excellent.

I have to disagree with that assessment. I think that most people will agree that there is not a steady progression of improvement in, say, BUFFY. Although it improved (dramatically) from Season One to Season Two, most folk will say that is peaked well before the last season.

One of the things that Joss showed us with FIREFLY is that he knows how to hit the ground running. He knows how to rope us in. Sure, THE TRAIN JOB is not as good as the original pilot, but in 44 minutes, Joss managed to give the network what they wanted AND tell a story that was interesting enough to make us tune back in next week, even if we weren't hooked just yet.

The quality of the opening episodes of DOLLHOUSE represents a step backward, and while it's always chic to blame FOX for that, FOX isn't credited as the writer.

Quote:
You just know he's got webs of stories in his head with all kinds of weird interactions. It just takes time to lay the groundwork.

And, again, DOLLHOUSE represents a failure on his part in many ways. If he were telling the story as a novel or movie, or mini-series, he'd have the luxury perhaps to start off with a bunch of weak episodes, but the storytelling medium of television doesn't (and shouldn't!) allow for that.

Quote:
I suppose I am also feeling manipulated by F*x. If Dollhouse gets the ax, I'm going to feel like I've been suckered twice. I know I shouldn't take it personally, but I hate it when the forces of ignorance triumph.

How are "the forces of ignorance" winning here? The show got off to a slow start and hasn't yet been able to find an audience. Indeed, ratings continue to drop, and that's not the network's fault. That's flat storytelling and two-dimensional characters.

I'm not saying DOLLHOUSE is the worst show out there, but coming from someone as talented as Joss, it's been VERY disappointing so far.

Let's be honest: if it didn't have Whedon's name on in, and some of his alumni in it, how many of us would still be watching it? How many of us would have actually made it to the "good" episodes?

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, April 3, 2009 7:36 AM

Okay, I've read most of the posts here and I must say that there are some strong opinions that the show may be cancelled.

That may be so but I disagree that Joss bears all the blame. Yes, he may have contributed some to the show's shortcomings, but, for the most part, especially the early eps, Fox has got to accept the majority of the blame.

I kept reading articles and blurbs about the number of re-writes Fox asked for in the pilot and other eps (Remember the Train Job?). I can't help but wonder how many of the early eps were complete clusterf*&^%#@ks after Fox meddling. But I thought of something even simpler than that - just like chemistry between 2 actors must click for a hit show, then too must chemistry click between a writer/director and a network. Fox has a penchant for shows to hit the ground running (that's why 24 has been been given carte blanche).
Joss does not write in that style. Fox knew this, and, for that matter, so did Joss.

That's why, IMO, Fox presses all of the shows considered to be "action" oriented to follow that "24" formula. Of course this does not include a show like "House." Shows like Firefly and Dollhouse are much better suited for the SciFi
channel.

SGG

Tawabawho?

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Friday, April 3, 2009 2:27 PM

TSCC - I have no doubt this will be canceled. The Terminator franchise has been a disappointment since the end of the 2nd film when "future history changed". Once they lost a purpose..a direction..the subsequent stories were pre-destined to become muddled. The logic behind events of both the third film and TSCC are, at times, so jumbled they are just not worth watching. I have no doubt that this new film "salvation" will be no better. How can it be when it is forced into a pre-determined path?

Dollhouse - I sense this is proceeding like Buffy Season 1. If one was to judge buffy solely on the merits of season 1, it would be a sad affair indeed. Joss needs to pick this up and start adding snappy plots to grab attention. Echo waking up will help. This show needs to drift into a "Dark Angel"-like direction with spiffy whedonesque dialoge tossed in.

Castle - In 5 words: This has been done before. It's already stale and will be cancled soon. This is fine by me since it will allow Nathan to move on to better things. I was just thinking of a Dr. Horrible sequel called "Hammer".

GGOTCH

Friday, April 3, 2009 8:19 PM

Generally, I have never been one for network television. But unlike myself, it would seem that most of us tuning into the networks, are looking for simple, flashy, easy-to-understand programing, that allow us to relax, until it is time for bed. And there is nothing wrong with that. Like most maunfactured products, we consumers continue to get what we most consume, as it should be I suppose. Plus, TV is a very expensive business, to be taking too many chances. And production company/network shareholders expect quarterly upbeat results. Sigh, such is the world we live in.

I have tuned into Castle, as I do like Nathan, as an actor. But I feel that the show exemplifies what I am saying: rather bland, and predictable. Good for falling asleep to. Sadly, with snappy dialog, and great plots, it could have been "Monk" meets "Moonlighting".

For me, without any disdain for anyone, I just avoid most TV programing. Network is what it is.

However, many moons ago, my sister-in-law convinced my wife and I to view some episodes of Buffy, while it was still in production, and we fell in love with the show.

Because of the respect, I had developed, for that show, and its creator, I searched out Firefly and stayed with it despite the wild ride the Fox Network gave all of us, who were trying to watch the show loyally.

I am truly a Browncoat, through and through.

Now, out of respect for Firefly, and its creator, and despite the fact that Dollhouse's premise did not appeal to me, I tuned in.

Perhaps unfairly, I watched only 2 episodes, but I did find the show to be unappealing, as I suspected it would-for me.

I still salute Joss, however, for piloting an attempt at an innovating new show. I will always give something he champions a look. But we are allowed to find some things not to our liking- that is OK.

I love the Beatles, but wish they had never done "Mr Moonlight". Not everything geniuses do is exceptional.

I'm in the tank for more Firefly/Serenity, and I'll keep on the lookout for Joss's new stuff (loved "Dr. Horrible", by the way), but I have to leave Dollhouse unwatched.

Sorry Joss. Sorry gang!

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