Facing the Myth of Redemptive Violence

POSTED BY: Fremdfirma
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 1, 2025 19:20
VIEWED: 1216
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FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 4:25 PM

A very interesting article, and while I do NOT agree with the authors obviously Christian-Biased leanings, as his own belief is every bit as guilty of the same offenses, the core argument of the article is entirely sound.
http://ekklesia.co.uk/content/cpt/article_060823wink.shtml

This belief, this deep-seated myth and it's abettence and encouragement within every facet of our society, is an entirely destructive element.

Noteable bits
In short, the Myth of Redemptive Violence is the story of the victory of order over chaos by means of violence. It is the ideology of conquest, the original religion of the status quo. The gods favour those who conquer. Conversely, whoever conquers must have the favour of the gods. The common people exist to perpetuate the advantage that the gods have conferred upon the king, the aristocracy, and the priesthood.

Once children have been indoctrinated into the expectations of a dominator society, they may never outgrow the need to locate all evil outside themselves. Even as adults they tend to scapegoat others for all that is wrong in the world. They continue to depend on group identification and the upholding of social norms for a sense of well-being.

Btw, I also disagree on his take regarding cartoons as wholly a vehicle of violence, since Bugs Bunny in particular was quite as able to use negotiation, deception or even turn someone elses violence back upon them as to commit it himself.

-F

SIGNYM

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:23 PM

ALSO

Quote:
Few cartoons have run longer or been more influential than Popeye and Bluto. In a typical segment, Bluto abducts a screaming and kicking Olive Oyl, Popeye’s girlfriend. When Popeye attempts to rescue her, the massive Bluto beats his diminutive opponent to a pulp, while Olive Oyl helplessly wrings her hands. At the last moment, as our hero oozes to the floor, and Bluto is trying, in effect, to rape Olive Oyl, a can of spinach pops from Popeye’s pocket and spills into his mouth.

Transformed by this gracious infusion of power, he easily demolishes the villain and rescues his beloved. The format never varies. Neither party ever gains any insight or learns from these encounters. They never sit down and discuss their differences. Repeated defeats do not teach Bluto to honour Olive Oyl’s humanity, and repeated pummellings do not teach Popeye to swallow his spinach before the fight.

It never occurs to people to ask:

WHY do we have the highest number of people who believe in religion of love... and the greatest difference between rich and poor?

WHY do we have the greatest incarceration rate and the highest crime rate?

WHY do we execute more people than all other industrialized nations combined and still have the highest number of murders?

At some point, you would think that people would take a look back, a look around, and say to themselves This not not working. Maybe we should try something else, something different.

As trite as it sounds, I think the answer is Be the change you wish to see.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:34 PM

According to the Paper today, Amnesty International places the US fourth on executions, behind China, Iran and Saudi Arabia, and ahead of Pakistan and Iraq. Those are absolute numbers though, I don't know about per-capita.

My own take is that the state has little to no right to decide who lives and who dies, save maybe in matters of immediate self-defence (but those would be individual decisions anyway I would think?).

AURaptor advocates child murder:

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361

SIGNYM

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:39 PM

I should have qualified "In the industrialized world". But that we're within hailing distance of China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Pakistan should give people serious... and I mean SERIOUS... questions about who we are and where we're going.

It should.

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Let's make the world right and kill kids.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I should have qualified "In the industrialized world". But that we're within hailing distance of China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Pakistan should give people serious... and I mean SERIOUS... questions about who we are and where we're going.

It should.

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

To be fair there's a big gulf between those top 4. China was 1716+, Iran 346+, Saudi Arabia 102+ and the US was 37.

AURaptor advocates child murder:

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:08 PM

You guys do know that there is a difference between killing and murder, right?

The Bible actually says, "Thou shalt not MURDER"...

Not kill. Big difference.

CITIZEN

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:17 PM

And you'd think we're basing our arguments on the Bible because...

AURaptor advocates child murder:

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361

SIGNYM

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:25 PM

Quote:
Not kill. Big difference.

Yeah, I'm sure the dead really split that hair!

---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:48 PM

Sig, Cit,

There is a BIG difference. Killing, while not pretty....is FAR different from murder.

Killing someone who is destroying your life...ok. Murdering someone who disagrees with you.....not ok.

KWICKO

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Sig, Cit,

There is a BIG difference. Killing, while not pretty....is FAR different from murder.

Killing someone who is destroying your life...ok. Murdering someone who disagrees with you.....not ok.

What about murdering someone by invading their country when they're not a threat to you?

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...

The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

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