PTSD and Mal. Really?

POSTED BY: Bytemite
UPDATED: Monday, January 27, 2020 20:08
VIEWED: 36442
PAGE 1 of 12

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT PAGE

BYTEMITE

Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:22 PM

There's my question, right up front. Does Mal really have post traumatic stress disorder?

The general consensus seems to be yes, he does.

Looking back on what we know about some of the major events in his life, they definitely would seem to qualify as traumatic experiences.

Those of us who write fanfic absolutely love the PTSD angle, because it's such a gold mine for really good Mal angst and characterization. "He's a good guy, maybe not a nice guy, but you have to sympathize with him because, look, PTSD." Heck, a fanfic I've got in mind is the reason I'm wondering in the first place.

But as I try to think back and recall examples of him having PTSD in the comics, tv series, or movie, there's nothing clear-cut at all.

Classic symptoms of PTSD are flashbacks, nightmares, insomnia, phobias, avoidance behaviours, paranoia/hypervigilance, anxiety, feelings of apathy or numbness, over-protectiveness, strained personal relationships, inhibited self-expression, and aggression.

And while, okay, Mal does exhibit quite a number of these symptoms, what he exhibits is really hard to separate from depression.

Don't get me wrong, depression isn't anything to sniff at either. There just aren't any "Oh, he SO has PTSD" moments that I can remember. There's a couple of times where someone manages to sneak up and startle him when he's engrossed in something, but that seems within the limits of normal behaviour. And in the cold opening in the pilot episode, he has what is unequivocally a system crash/ blue screen of death moment when the Alliance start carpet bombing the valley. But he is never shown to freeze in response to gun-fire, artillery fire, or bombardment, and has an impressive resistance to torture. He becomes agitated and aggressive when faced with the possibility of imprisonment, but that also seems within a realm of normalcy. The night with Nandi and that almost time with Saffron don't suggest he's had any trauma in that sense, either.

He doesn't seem to have any PTSD triggers derived from any events we could possibly attribute to his past. So, does he have PTSD?

Also, people seem to commonly agree that after Serenity Valley, Mal and Zoe spent time in an Alliance POW camp. I like the idea, but is there a canonical reference to that?

AGENTROUKA

Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:27 PM

Who ever said he has PTSD?

I never noticed this being a commonly used idea, actually.

That's a nice list of symptoms, though, and indeed, Mal exhibits a large number of them. I vote depression. He's definitely not 100%.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:41 PM

That's odd, I see it all the time. Especially in a lot of hurt/comfort fanfiction. And apparently at one point on wikipedia, he was listed under "Fictional characters who suffer from PTSD."

A common theme in Mal/River fanfics seems to be that Mal and River's experiences with trauma and emotional/psychological problems are a good basis for a relationship. I don't necessarily agree on the relationship part, but my feelings on that don't rule out the possibility that PTSD could actually be something the two of them share in common.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, March 15, 2009 7:50 PM

I don't think the PTSD idea is necessarily wrong, because he does show signs of paranoia/hypervigilance and over-protectiveness, and those aren't a symptoms you commonly attribute to depression.

But those symptoms could be just personality traits; he wouldn't have ever made Sergeant if he didn't take care of his troops. And the more obvious PTSD symptoms of flashbacks, avoidance behaviour, and trigger behaviours aren't there.

Mal has a tendency to hide his problems, makes his diagnosis really hard to pin down. It could be there's a lot we aren't seeing.

AGENTROUKA

Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:15 PM

Or it could just be that he doesn't need to have flashbacks to still qualify for PTSD.. and it might be a mix of PTSD and depression symptoms.

He's not unstable or suicidal or what we sometimes poculturally associate with the word "traumatized". Mal is fairly stable. But I really think the level of aggression and defensiveness are not character traits he took into the war, though his overt condemnation of every single thing that may have ever touched the Alliance might speak of a natural sort of paranoid/judgmental streak that was heightened by the war.

Some of it may be war trauma, some of it the massive and sudden shock of disappointment of the disastrous, prolonged surrender at Serenity Valley, some of it the loss of his family and home. He's got plenty of reasons to be messed up.

It's nothing like River's issues, though!

This being a common theme in Mal/River fics would explain why I haven't seen it. Mal/River goes against everything I believe about either character and I avoid reading it on principle. :)

RALLEM

Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:32 PM

I am seeing a doctor at the V.A. Hospital in White River Jct, Vermont, which is the National Center for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and was talking to him about the series Firefly. The Doctor said Firefly was pure genius, and said that it covered PTSD so very well, and he wanted the other Doctors who work with PTSD in the VA to view Firefly as a training aid. I am not really sure what he meant whether he was talking about Serenity the pilot, or the whole series, and whether or not it was Mal or others who were victims.

http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

KATESFRIEND

Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:06 PM

I'm not sure you can get more canon than Joss Whedon himself, but he stated many times in interviews during 2002-03 that the character of Mal suffered from severe PTSD. It is also in the Firefly Visual Companion. Briefly, he based Mal on characters that survived the Civil War battle of Gettysburgh, where the amount of pure carnage on the battlefield still can hardly be believed. Joss was reading I believe it was "The Killer Angels" by Michael Shaara while on vacation in England when he got the concept for Firefly. He wanted a survivor from a massive battle with the PTSD symptoms to struggle against the backdrop of an unforgiving world, much like Civil War survivors were treated.

The original Mal in the first pilot was much more classic PTSD, kind of like Mal was in Serenity. But Fox made Joss make Mal nicer, so he would be more likable to the audience, who really didn't have a clue back then what war did to people. After so many more years of war, we're getting a better idea now what PTSD does to soldiers.

But there are many clues in Firefly about PTSD: Wash's comment to Mal about Mal's intimacy issues, Mal only going for wobbly headed Geisha dolls after being caught by Niska, the comment by the twins Fanty and Mingo in Serenity that Mal was unpredictable, fought when he should have talked, etc. And of course he could never voice feelings for Inara. The earliest fanfic makes a great deal about PTSD and has some pure gems from some authors drawn to the show because of their own PTSD, and those people wrote some of the best Mal characters I have ever read.

If you don't have a basis in PTSD, you would probably just think Mal is a jerk. But since Joss is a genius, nothing is ever as it seems, and Joss gave us all an opportunity at looking at life through a different lens, thanks to Mal. Do some more homework, but I think you can see that Joss had a little PTSD himself after losing Firefly.

One day the people of the world will want peace so much that the governments will have to get out of their way and give it to them.

-- Dwight D. Eisenhower

MAL4PREZ

Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:25 PM

I go for the Mal=PTSD theory (which is pretty obvious in my fics) but I think there are many levels of PTSD. The image of an ex-soldier going deep flashback and ducking for cover every time the garbage truck makes a boom is, I think, a Hollywood stereotype. It may happen to some very unfortunate souls, but the more common experience of PTSD is more like Mal: an inability to do basic life stuff, and a complete lack of attachment to or control of his own emotions and motivations.

I guess that throwing the term "PTSD" out there references some things that may not apply. Mal went through an extremely shitty time that messed up his ability to enjoy life. That much is quite clear from just about everything we know of him. Call it PTSD if you want, or not. The term works for me.

As for the POW camp - it may have been mentioned in the Visual Companion. There's a paragraph about Mal and Zoe's history, something about how a year or so after the war Mal found himself homeless and adrift (I'm totally paraphrasing my memory of something I read years ago - someone with the book handy please correct me!) This passage was the basis of my theories of the Alliance POW camp and the destruction of Shadow. But I think it's open to many interpretations, so have at it!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

CELLARDOOR

Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I go for the Mal=PTSD theory (which is pretty obvious in my fics) but I think there are many levels of PTSD. The image of an ex-soldier going deep flashback and ducking for cover every time the garbage truck makes a boom is, I think, a Hollywood stereotype. It may happen to some very unfortunate souls, but the more common experience of PTSD is more like Mal: an inability to do basic life stuff, and a complete lack of attachment to or control of his own emotions and motivations.

That's *exactly* how I would characterize it. While there may be clinical cases that exemplify PTSD with the utmost clarity, I don't think all cases are that clear cut and Mal seems to be one of the latter. I've known some vets from more recent wars and they can still function fairly normally, but they DO have nightmares sometimes, and they DO have trouble relating to people sometimes. That doesn't mean they jump at every slammed door or all have to sit with their backs to the wall looking out into the room to avoid a perceived ambush.

Which ep is it... War Stories...(?) in which we see Mal and Zoe still eating apples with a knife to be sure they're not filled with grenades even if they KNOW it's not possible? That sounds like clear-cut habit resulting from PTSD if you ask me. However, in the Alliance-friendly bar in Train Job, Mal has his back to the room, leaving himself open to a possible ambush, but he doesn't seem concerned (or maybe he trusts Zoe enough that he feels she can cover him... OR it was just the best stage positioning for the cameramen :P)

We do know Mal has intimacy issues though as well, it's just that he manages to get along reasonably well in spite of the residual trauma he may experience. Even with the limited canon, I think we can identify at least a mild to moderate case of PTSD.

Edit: I also refrain from reading M/R fanfic on purpose. Just doesn't compute with my 'verse.

NCBROWNCOAT

Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:59 PM

I went and looked up complex post traumatic stress disorder in Wikipidia and the one symptom that jumped out at me was:

'changes in, one's system of meanings, which may include a loss of sustaining faith or a sense of hopelessness and despair'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_post-traumatic_stress_disorder#Ad
ult_symptom_cluster

All of Mal's "personality quirks", except one could be explained as a normal reaction to combat and the stress of living on the run.

In fact, growing up on a ranch likely helped him cope in way. It provided early lessons in leadership and also dealing with loss. He grew up without a father (or so most think in that he only mentions his mother). He likely grew up with animals that hurt themselves or were slaughtered for food, the weather could make or break a season in an instant etc.

He's with in the range of "normal"(but who is normal any way?) except in one area, his faith. Mal isn't hopeless or despairing, but he did lose his faith, one of the symptoms of complex post traumatic disorder.

Usually faith sustains someone in a traumatic situation. A pastor or chaplain can provide enormous help in a traumatic situtation and in our military function as first line counselors on the battlefield and in the hospital.

It makes me wonder if Mal was such a believer that he expected his faith to fix every thing and when it didn't, that was his main trauma or did some trusted pastor/chaplain betray him in some way? I digress into the unknowable but very good fodder for fan fics.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT PAGE