Are You A Cameron / TERMINATOR Fan ?
POSTED BY: out2theblack
UPDATED: Monday, March 2, 2009 00:10
VIEWED: 7082
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Sarah Connor is the best thing on TV right now, sorry dollhouse. Heroes probably second.
I think the whole area 51 thing is stupid and pointless. They were focusing on the mission, not chasing shadows. The mission right now is John Henry. Stopping AI is impossible, they need to learn that, and adjust their strategy.
John needs to become someone who we believe capable of saving the world without superpowers. He's too much of a JC, messiah complex, please, make him real. Make him some kind of genius that helps guide AI into a less dangerous path.
Cameron is the best part of the show, and not just because she's Summer. The produced said in an interview "Yeah, I know the audience is screaming More Summer, More Summer! but..." Hey, dude, if you can actually hear what the fanbase wants and are ignoring it? That's a one way ticket to extinction. I think we need to invade the board on Fox and storm it, and scream More Summer a little louder.
This show desperately needs to realize that "Allison from Palmdale" is its soul. This is worth a whole season story arc, by itself, as a show. The possibilities for character development of this character arc are potentially awesome. I want to rant about them on the Sarah Connor Message Board on Fox, because that's where they are going to actually listen.
Oh, and I think Sarah is great. Love her. She's perfect. Sometimes the story writers make her too hard ass, or too weak, but she's definitely carrying the role. No one compares to Summer, that's unrealistic, but the show has some talent, it just has to use it, and lose the rest, lose the pointless distracting threads.
I'd love to write or be a story editor for this show. It's so close to perfection, it just needs a little tweaking. It needs a dash more creepy and 2 cups of complexity, and oh yes, a tablespoon of permanent character bloodshed.
http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/thread?t=anon
We need a plan of attack, and also, a strategy. Let's decide what direction we want the show to go in, and how to make that happen, by storming the board. I know they read these boards, they pay more attention to them than they do to ratings. I've been, tried to be, in the business, and several execs confided this in me. It's the main thing they read. But one of these threads has 11259 replies. The good news: Even the show's producers aren't going to read a thread like that. We need to make our own threads, and make them about compliments complaints and suggestions, and I think we should use a subtle tactic of debate, where we discuss direction differences, but make our discussions very visible, and then they'll see the connection. And for those not so hot on SCC, remember that its success is now linked to Dollhouse, and Dollhouse is linked to future funding for any Joss enterprise. Same for SCC and Cameron, James, so Dark Angel fans take note too. If we can do this, we might want to do it on their Dollhouse board as well.
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This discussion should move to the other shows forum, but I just wanted to say, all Sarah Connor fans and Summer Glau fans, she's the best part of the show: go to the Fox forums and push for more summer on their general and plot speculation sections.
More Summer means more Cameron, which will make the show better. It also means good things for Summer, and would help Sarah Connor's ratings. Sarah Connor's ratings are tied to Dollhouse ratings, higher Doll House ratings are good for Alan, Amy and Eliza, and especially Joss, which even if you don't like Joss, increases the chances that someone will fund his next project.
Right now, Summer, Alan, Amy and Eliza, Josh and Joss are all in the same liferaft. If Fox's sci-fi friday survived, it keeps the sci-fi insurgency alive. It's good for everyone.
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I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you DT.
The name of the show is The Sarah Connor Chronicles, not The Cameron Phillips Chronicles. I love Summer and want her to be successful in everything she does, but part of that is playing the roles she is given to the best of her ability. Character actors in supporting roles can be just as important to the success of a show as the leads, but if a producer ever listened to fans and let the supporting players outshine the leads he would be crazy.
If you reread your post you might be able to see why I would consider it "damning the show with faint praise." You say it is the best thing on tv but you criticize it for not doing things you want it to do. You can't have it both ways.
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This last episode was all right, certainly far better than the garbage funeral episode. That one was the first instance in the entire series when I went "No way around it; that was just BAD." I get it that it's supposed to follow Sarah, but these recent episodes are moving the main story arc way too slowly. To be honest, I'm not even sure what the dream episode added. I suppose they need a slump somewhere. I felt like things were picking up for a while with the whole Weaver corporation, but then it's stalled completely to Sarah's boring quests.
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Teminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles
Both are in the title. The terminator is the central character, and T1 hints at this idea, T2 takes it further, and Cameron Phillips takes it home, to a new level, it becomes what the show is about, when it's any good.
The man on the run show is an old TV standby, and yawn.
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You say it is the best thing on tv but you criticize it for not doing things you want it to do. You can't have it both ways.
I listen to your comments because you have suggestions which I like, we must have similar taste, similarly, o2tb, a couple others. Some people here I like but what they choose to watch I can't stand, and so I just try it, then move on.
There's no inconsistency in this statement.
The best of television is always going to be flawed. My suggestions, like my suggestions for dollhouse, are just "what would make this interesting." My honest suggestion for dollhouse? cancel it. It's not very good, there's nothing happening. But that would be very unpopular here. If people wanted to save dollhouse, for the sake of joss or eliza, or because they like the show, then they should critically attack it, and point out it's flaws.
So, you're misinterpretting me on two levels:
1. TV is never going to be good, at best, it's entertaining. It's like if you say "the best news on television." Imho, the best news on television is Fox, or maybe MSNBC, but that doesn't mean they aren't objectively both crap. The best news off television dusts the best news on television by miles. Similarly, the best films dust television, and are in turn dusted by the best books.
2. Criticism is the highest form of praise. If I don't take something apart piece by piece to analyze the flaws, there's only one reason: I don't care enough about it to make editorial comments. If you're not making editorial comments, you're just a blind follower. I criticize Dollhouse and Joss out of respect for Joss, not because I think Dollhouse is any good. The time and effort I devoted to taking apart Sarah Connor, and even going to Fox to do so is high praise.
This isn't a mystery or a personal quirk, it's probably the most generally accepted fact in the world of fiction writing. It's the reason that there are editors and websites, and people monitoring feedback. Everyone wants to know what's wrong and what's right. I think I made it clear. Sarah Connor is a great character. By herself, she's not the story. Cameron is the story.
The show, and the franchise, as the movies, is called "Terminator." The terminator is the symbolic soldier, and abstraction of the soldier as a character. It's one of the more brilliant deconstructions to hit the screen. You could never do this story with a real soldier, people have too much respect for soldiers, and too much personal attachment to them. But a soldier is simultaneously a person and a programmed killing machine, and the conflict within. This is what Terminator is about.
If Terminator were another man on the run type story, I'd just turn it off and not give it another thought.
So, yes, the show basically is called the Cameron Phillips Chronicles, it's implicit in the very first word in the title.
Let me give you another franchise title: Alien. It's not called "Ripley." Ripley is the protagonist and she's essential to the franchise, and the stories chronicle her life, lives, or, as some people put it, replay the same story over again from different perspectives. My personal favorites are those of James Cameron and Joss Whedon, the also Ridley Scott, and I find Fincher's to be flawed by with merit, but all this goes to show exactly how little talent there is in the field that we keep talking about the same people over and over again.
But without the alien, we lose the story completely. The alien is the contrast, the extreme struggle for survival, but also the competition for humanity, that forces humanity to show its true face. The android represents humanity's total loss of feeling and emotion in pursuit of the goal, the corporation represents human
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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
And so it is with SCC. She's the narrator. She's not the story. Terminator is the story, and how it clashes, and how it connects, and what that tells us about humanity. For the show, there's a small amount of that which is Weaver, a small amount which is Carmotti/John Henry, and much more which is Cameron. Skynet here is simply the equiv. of the corporation. It represents blind ambition in the absence of reason.
I agree with this.
My problem is not that Sarah has the majority of the screen time. My problem is that her story line has very little to do with John or the Terminators...which is what it's ALWAYS been about.
Not to mention, if I have some machine programmed to help me or a Soldier from the future who came back to help me...I don't think I would keep going on these solo missions.
Sarah's main concern should be John. And right now, she's not giving me any of the tools he'll need to be a leader of a rebellion.
And the first word of the title IS Terminator...and both Terminator characters are basically caged. John Henry is like a child, given no directive to act upon and Cameron is used for eye candy and every once in a while she can beat some on up...when the writers don't have her standing off to the side staring at random people.
I don't disagree that Sarah should be the main figure, but the writers should understand that most people don't tune in to see her run around by herself, refusing to let the people she trusts help her.
I thought Friday's episode was okay...but I knew fairly quickly that the sleep clinic was the dream. Sarah would never willingly check herself into a clinic where she's vulnerable most of the time. I found the episode to be played out already.
And Sarah being capture fails to engage me emotionally, because she's being STUPID. If she hadn't just been shot in the leg (and surprisingly has no limp) and nearly died, maybe this guy getting to her would have meant something more to me. I mean, she nearly died, wouldn't that make her want back up on her next self imposed mission? Wouldn't that make John send Cameron or Reese with her?
I guess I don't care WHO has the majority of the screen time, so long as it's meaningful. I don't find the story right now to be progressing the original plot.
If they want to avoid cancellation, I think they need to speed up this arc they're in now, and get back to first season type episodes.
/Ramble.
~**~
"How come you're flying about with us brigands? I mean, shouldn't you be off bringing religiosity to the Fuzzie-Wuzzies or some such?"~Cap'n Mal
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Both Dreamtrove and InstantKarmaGirl make valid points, except for one thing in my opinion.
The Terminator tag was added by the studio and network. Josh only wanted to call it The Sarah Connor Chronicles, and his intention was always to focus on Sarah. But higher ups felt the franchise name was necessary to bring in viewers. I think it has done just the opposite.
I may be wrong, but I think the majority of people who liked the movies probably think the tv show is short on action and long on character introspection. Those who either didn't like the movies or don't like SF in general aren't watching because they thought it would be all action with freedom fighters running around killing robots.
I see it as a very well balanced story of character, plot and action, with a writing crew that seems to know exactly where it is heading. The main reason the ratings are down is the move to the Friday death slot, the one that doomed Firefly. I wouldn't worry at all about the way the show has gone the past few episodes except for the fact that I don't think they'll be granted a third season. Unfortunately it is too late for them to do anything about it. The finale is already filmed and Josh has said he wrote it the way he had always intended, as a season ending, not a series ending.
To go off topic, but Dollhouse has been mentioned, I'll compare it to TSCC. If I judged it from only the first three episodes I wouldn't have given TSCC a chance, but I stuck with it and the network had patience, and it has developed into one of the best (not the best, imo) show currently on the air. The fact that it has been widely reported that FOX has meddled considerably with the way Joss wanted to present Dollhouse, I think he and the show deserve the same patience.
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INSTANTKARMAGIRL
My problem is not that Sarah has the majority of the screen time. My problem is that her story line has very little to do with John or the Terminators...which is what it's ALWAYS been about.
Exactomundo. It's a distraction. As characters, the arc should be paying a lot more attention to John Henry at the moment, and John should probably have some direct contact with Ellison, who has contact with John Henry, so he can try to chance the path of AI. He can't stop the raging river, only alter its course.
It would also be an interesting intertwisted plotline if Cameron is trying to change who John is, John is trying to change who Ellison is, so that Ellison can change who John Henry is, to alter the future.
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Not to mention, if I have some machine programmed to help me or a Soldier from the future who came back to help me...I don't think I would keep going on these solo missions.
lol. does seem a bit suicidal. That was one of my ten points I posted to fox.
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Sarah's main concern should be John. And right now, she's not giving me any of the tools he'll need to be a leader of a rebellion.
Yes, this is another major issue. The show has a messiah complex about John Connor. He needs to demonstrate something unique that makes him essential to the resistance. He's not simply going to be Jesus just by being alive. In fact, looking at the future, I'd say he's doing a pretty poor job of it. Changing the course to avoid the event should be his main objective.
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And the first word of the title IS Terminator...and both Terminator characters are basically caged. John Henry is like a child, given no directive to act upon and Cameron is used for eye candy and every once in a while she can beat some on up...when the writers don't have her standing off to the side staring at random people.
Agreed, but you left out Catherine Weaver. She's a terminator too (2?) Her agenda we assume to be unmitigated evil, but we don't really know. After all, Arnie was evil in T1, and good in T2, when T1000 was evil, we can't make assumptions about a new T1000. She might have any agenda.
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I don't disagree that Sarah should be the main figure, but the writers should understand that most people don't tune in to see her run around by herself, refusing to let the people she trusts help her.
She is the narrator. Like John Creighton, Mal Reynolds, they are telling us the story, but it doesn't mean that the story is about them. Dr. Watson tells us a story about Sherlock Holmes.
I think she's a strong part of the story, to date she has done an admirable job, and I think acting needs to be taken into account. I think it's about time that John Connor be given some really challenging storylines where he loses his mind or something, just to see if he can act. He definitely needs some character dev, and the relationship with riley def. wasn't doing it.
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I thought Friday's episode was okay...but I knew fairly quickly that the sleep clinic was the dream. Sarah would never willingly check herself into a clinic where she's vulnerable most of the time. I found the episode to be played out already.
That bugged me, as did the roommate, and the fact that she didn't take logical precautions, like use cameron, instead, the cute pancake scene depicts her fear of cameron's influence over John.
Another thing just bothered me. In a past ep, she used a remembering a keypad punch, IIRC, why didn't she do it again, also, why not take cameron to break in?
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And Sarah being capture fails to engage me emotionally, because she's being STUPID. If she hadn't just been shot in the leg (and surprisingly has no limp) and nearly died, maybe this guy getting to her would have meant something more to me. I mean, she nearly died, wouldn't that make her want back up on her next self imposed mission? Wouldn't that make John send Cameron or Reese with her?
The series, I'll confess, is perpetually weak on this level. Most TV shows are, I kind
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Yes, I forgot about Weaver, who is one of my favorite characters on the show. I don't know what her agenda is, but I think she's one of the things the writers have right. I don't WANT to know her agenda yet. I find her interactions with her "daughter" to be wonderfully played.
And I agree that Allison from Palmdale was one of the better episodes. I guess what I meant by speeding up the arc was more of...move away from the "things hiding in the desert and Sarah doing things she shouldn't" and move towards character motivation.
Because, fine, Sarah's the lead, but if she fails to engage me emotionally and I cannot understand her actions, why would I watch? (FYI, I watch because despite my critique of the show, I think it's worthwhile and it's better than most of the crud that's on TV)
If Sarah is someone who goes on solo missions, SHOW ME WHY! She should be at home with John, protecting him and teaching him. In T2, she didn't shelter John from the storm, she showed it to him and forced him to deal with things...because she knows who he is in the future.
All I ask is that her motivations be known. I understand Cameron...she's got a directive. I understand John, he's a reluctant hero that just wants to be a teenager. I understand Ellison, who just wants the truth. I understand Derek, who is simply a soldier.
I couldn't care less about Riley or Jesse (although I had high hopes for Riley). I find them bored and distracting, not in a good way.
I know that "everything she (Sarah) does is for John" and that's fine...but it doesn't really come off that way. She doesn't seem to care enough to convince John of why she's doing things.
So, okay, this is what I'd love to see from the show:
1. More Terminators.
2. More John becoming a Man.
3. The end of the Jesse/Riley saga.
4. More character introspection that reveals motive.
5. Cameron doing what she's supposed to be made to do, which is adapt.
6. Sarah coming back to her original goal of keeping John alive and bringing down Skynet (with her "genius" son's help).
yeah, that might be it.
And I know every show has errors and that's cool, but when the errors are in EVERY episode and no one learns from it...it becomes hard to over look.
~**~
"How come you're flying about with us brigands? I mean, shouldn't you be off bringing religiosity to the Fuzzie-Wuzzies or some such?"~Cap'n Mal
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Agreed 100%. Post it to fox.
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