Map of the Verse discussion
POSTED BY: jewelstaitefan
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 08:33
VIEWED: 49136
PAGE 4 of 18
edit: after the White Paper was posted around the end of Feb, this chart is updated with more accuracy in a March post below.
Based upon the last few posts, I will recalculate speed and distance figures from an above post.
In the Red Sun system, the orbit of Jiangyin has a radius of about 13/32 inch, and the orbit of Greenleaf has a radius of about 1 11/16 inch.
That gives a distance of 41/32 inch when they are nearest, and about 67/32 when farthest from each other.
With the above revelations (about 1.5 distortion factor in this system), this coverts to about 5.02Au when near and 8.208Au when far. We can assume in Safe that they will use max speed/acceleration when trying to get dying Book to Med Facilities, and this is supposed to be 10 hours. So 5 hours of acceleration,. and 5 hours of decceleration.
The min accel rate would be 0.20 Au/hour sq, and the fastest would be about 0.328 Au/hour sq.
A rudimentary time/distance table would be like this:
Time Min & Max distance/speed
1 hour. 0.1 @0.2 & 0.164 @0.328
2 hours. 0.4 @0.4 & 0.656 @0.656
3 hours. 0.9 @0.6 & 1.476 @0.984
4 hours. 1.6 @0.8 & 2.624 @1.312
5 hours. 2.5 @1.0 & 4.100 @1.640
6 hours. 3.6 @1.2 & 5.904 @1.968
7 hours. 4.9 @1.4 & 8.036 @2.296
8 hours. 6.4 @1.6 & 10.496 @2.624
9 hours. 8.1 @1.8 & 13.284 @2.952
10 hours. 10.0 @2.0 & 16.400 @3.280
15 hours. 22.5 @3.0 & 36.900 @4.92
20 hours. 40.0 @4.0 & 65.600 @6.56
25 hours. 62.5 @5.0 & 102.500 @8.20
30 hours. 90.0 @6.0 & 147.600 @9.84
32 hours. 102.4 @6.4
So it's about 25-32 hours to accelerate until traveled 100Au, then the same to deccelerate back to zero.
please post correction if I have erred.
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Based upont the revised information above, we can now review the itineraries of the Verse.
Let's start with BDM Serenity.
Lilac to Beaumonde to Haven to Training House to Haven to Miranda to Mr. Universe's place.
Beaumonde in 15th orbital ring around Kalidasa, which is 121Au from White Sun. Beaumonde is about 13.4Au from Kalidasa Sun, so Beaumonde's farthest distance from White Sun is about 134.4Au.
Lilac, second moon on New Canaan in 2nd orbital ring around Blue Sun, which is 180Au from White Sun. New Canaan is about 2.39Au from Blue Sun, so the nearest distance to White Sun that New Canaan and Lilac get is about 177.6Au.
Therefore the shortest distance that Lilac and Beaumonde can get is about 43.2Au, or about 23-30 hours at max Serenity acceleration.
Haven, 1st moon on Deadwood in 7th orbital ring around Blue Sun. Deadwood is about 14.0Au from Blue Sun, so nearest disance to White Sun would be 166Au. Shortest distance from Beaumonde to Haven would be about 31.6Au, or about 20-26 hours at max Serenity accel/decel.
Miranda orbiting Burnham around Blue Sun isn't much distance from Haven. Miranda about 3.9Au from Burnham, and Burnham about 23.4Au from Blue Sun (8th orbital ring). So nearest that Miranda gets to Haven is about 5.5Au and farthest apart is about 41.3Au (about the saem as Lilac to Beaumonde closest range).
So, does this seem reasonable? Or is the Beaumonde distance out of wack? Does it seem reasonable that it took a day to get from Lilac to Beaumonde, and another day to get back to Haven (a short ways from Lilac)?
I didn't get that impression from film and scripts, how about you?
The travels to and from Training House are not a problem, nor are trips to and from Miranda.
Lemming has admitted that not all of the Map of the Verse is vetted within the series and BDM travel itinerary, so should we decide that this placement of Beaumonde in the Kalidasa System is one of these anomolies?
It would seem that if Beaumonde was in the Blue Sun system, or at least the same system as either Lilac or Haven, then the travel tiems would seem more in line with what the BDM showed.
Anybody else?
One wrinkle to consider is the upgrades to Serenity after TLB and before BDM. Apparently the proceeds from the fencing of the Lassiter paid for all the Serenity upgrades, like more blinking lights around the cockpit, and the new mule. Did they include speed/performance upgrades? Is their travel time quicker now? If so, it's also possible to consider one of the moons of Dragon's Egg as a
training House location.
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Training House location.
With the above listed travel times, we can narrow down the location of the Training House in the BDM - assuming we take Mal's "couple hours" from Haven to Training House, and same to return to Haven, as accurate.
With Haven as first moon on Deadwood, the next nearest planet is Gas Giant Dragon's Egg, and it's 5 Inhabitable moons - all about 2.0 Au away, at max proximity. This amounts to about 5-6 hours each way. Even if only 1.5Au distance, it would still take 4-5 hours each way, so it seems none of these moons are where Training House is.
That leaves just Deadwood, the 2nd moon New Omaha, or Haven itself as the location of Training House (according to Map of the Verse.)
Any comments on this?
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Another itinerary is for Those Left Behind.
Starting on Constance, next at a dock which could be on Persephone since Badger is there, then someplace where Badger is left, then the site of Battle of Sturges, then to the Training House somewhere around Deadwood.
The Battle of Sturges might be near Sturges, but perhaps not. We can speculate so for initial computations, but cannot assume it is the case. We do not know how the battle was named - for instance, an incident during our recent century could have been named Battle of Bismark, when that ship was tracked, attacked, and finally sunk - it was nowhere near the Dakotas, as an example. Sturges is shown on Map of the Verse as 1st moon on Aphrodite, which is the world in 2nd orbital ring around protostar Murphy, being the 14th orbital ring of Georgia System.
Constance is the 3rd orbital path in Kalidasa System, about 1.4Au from it's Sun. So the closest it comes to White Sun is about 119.6Au.
Assuming Persephone is the place badger shows up, it's orbit is about 3.0Au from Lux, which orbits White Sun about 30.6Au, so the farthest Persephone gets is 33.6Au from White Sun.
So, the shortest travel distance from Constance to Persephone would be about 86.0Au, or about 32-42 hours of travel, at Serenity's max accel/decel.
Speculating that the Battle of Sturges was near Sturges, with Aphrodite being about 1.5Au from Murphy, which orbits about 16.0Au around Georgia Sun, the nearest Sturges would get to White Sun would be about 50.5Au.
So, the shortest travel distance from Persephone to Sturges would be about 17Au, or about 14-18 hours at Serenity's max accel/decel.
Deadwood can get as close as about 166Au to White Sun. So the shortest travel distance from Sturges to Deadwood would be about 110Au, or about 36-46 hours, at Serenity's max accel/decel.
I didn't see much reference to time in TLB, so does this seem like reasonable itinerary estimates to you folk?
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I mean no disrespect to anyone on this thread, but we really have to remember the theory of "A willing suspension of disbelief" when watching a show or movie. Now I'm not saying that the laws of physics or science should NOT apply, but MOST people do not know about the particulars of those laws and we're asked sometimes to simply accept what we're told and roll with it in order to enjoy the story. I remember reading an article about an astrophysicist getting upset with movies because the night skies are inaccruate and I thought it was fairly petty.
Again, I mean NO disrespect and I'm definately NOT looking to pick a fight. But is all of this really worth discussing if the manner in which humans GOT to the 'Verse is a little far fetched to begin with? I read somewhere that Joss mentioned there was NO faster than light travel in the series. Seeing as how the closest star to ours is several light years away . . . that means it would have taken humans well over 500 years to get there to begin with, not to mention scouting the planets/moons and then terraforming them (a process which took decades). Am I wrong?
So my whole point is . . . why get nit-picky over where the planets are, how far away they are from each other in terms of days traveled and the effects of the other suns?
(Shielding myself) . . . please don't hurt me . . . 
Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas
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Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
I mean no disrespect to anyone on this thread, but we really have to remember the theory of "A willing suspension of disbelief" when watching a show or movie. Now I'm not saying that the laws of physics or science should NOT apply, but MOST people do not know about the particulars of those laws and we're asked sometimes to simply accept what we're told and roll with it in order to enjoy the story. I remember reading an article about an astrophysicist getting upset with movies because the night skies are inaccruate and I thought it was fairly petty.
Again, I mean NO disrespect and I'm definately NOT looking to pick a fight. But is all of this really worth discussing if the manner in which humans GOT to the 'Verse is a little far fetched to begin with? I read somewhere that Joss mentioned there was NO faster than light travel in the series. Seeing as how the closest star to ours is several light years away . . . that means it would have taken humans well over 500 years to get there to begin with, not to mention scouting the planets/moons and then terraforming them (a process which took decades). Am I wrong?
So my whole point is . . . why get nit-picky over where the planets are, how far away they are from each other in terms of days traveled and the effects of the other suns?
(Shielding myself) . . . please don't hurt me . . .
You said zseveral light years away. At the speed of light, that would mean several years. At half the speed of light, that would mean twice as much, like 5 or 6 years.
Joss said an entire generation never saw the outside of the ship during exodus to the Verse.
Lifespans have become 120 years in the upcoming 500 years, according to Joss.
So, even if only half light speed, that's about 60-70 light years away.
They started settling around 2220, apparently.
The terraqforming took decades, and the terraforming ships were pre-launched from Earth decades before the humans took off, so the worlds were largely pre-terraformed upon arrival of the human ships.
So what part of this does not compute for you?
Science and knowledge is continualloy evolving, and hopefully advancing. Perhaps at one time, science fiction was the realm of those who proposed the Earth was round, that the Sun does NOT revolve around the Earth, that the stars do not revolve around the Earth as their center. Some thing require GREAT suspensions of disbelievf, ohters not so much. Part of what many like about this Verse is the relative reality it holds to. No sounds of explosions in space. No sound in space. Adaptability of relative upside down/rightside up in space. Etc.
Some consider precognition to be sci fi, or even fantasy - others are already aware of the proof of this phenomena. Mind Reading? Whores at the epitome of the Social ladder? Are sucyh things so unbelievable?
Joss has stated there is no faster than light travel - or am I mistaken here? At least I don't recall he said there IS faster then light travel.
Either I'm missing your point, or I can't see it, focus on it.
This is a discussion, it should not hurt you. It may not seem like much of a discussion, but I am assuming there are several reasons for that - like many have not purchased a Map of the Verse yet, and much groundwork had to be laid first (the last few posts have been able to progress onward, utilizing the conclusions of the groundwork). I have continued on even lacking input from others, in the hope that when others purchase their Map of the Verse, or are ready to peruse, then this will be here for them to catch up with. Or build upon.
Additioanlly, there are others arond who are avid, or rabid, or obseessive, or something about things like fics (and I really do mean that in the most complimentary form). They oft inquire about times, ditances, locations, itineraries of the Verse, so they can form, fit, or finagle their fic or other work into the existing canon body of Verse work, and they might find this helpful. Of course, they may choose to ignor
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Itinerary for Pilot Serenity.
From Carrier Salvage aroun 0800-0900 to Persephone around 1200, planned stay until 1500 but abrupt departure sooner, then to Whitefall, and possibly on to Boros (not really certain about Boros).
Persephone around Lux is about 33.6Au from White Sun at it's farthest reach.
Whitehall is 4th moon on Athens, which is in the 9th orbital ring of the Georgia System. Athens is about 9.0Au from Georgia Sun, so is nearest White Sun at about 59Au distance. So at greatest proximity, Persephone and Whitefall are about 25.4Au apart from each other, or about 18-23 hours travel time at Serenity's max accel/decel.
Boros is the 3rd world in the Georgia System, about 3.0Au from it's Sun. So the minimum distance from Whitefall to Boros is about 6.0Au and the max distance is about 12.0Au.
So this max distance would take about 12-16Au to travel at Serenity's max accel/decel.
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Itinerary for The Train Job.
Start off in a Unification Day celebration bar on a moon with 3 worlds in the sky and a ringed body in the background while leaving atmo. Then to Ezra where Niska' Skyplex orbits, then to an unknown place where the towns of Hancock and Paradiso are located.
There are 2 worlds on the Map of the Verse with rings. New Canaan and Beylix. Beylix is closest to Ezra. It could be supposed that St. Lucius is the location of the U-Day bar. Beylix is in the first orbit around protostar Penglai, which is the 11th orbital ring of the Kalidasa Sun. Bexlix is about 1.3Au from Penglai, which is about 8.0Au from it's Sun, so Beylix gets as close as 111.7Au to White Sun.
Ezra is in the 1st orbital position in the Georgia System, about 1.4Au from the Sun. This means the farthest Ezra gets from White Sun is about 69.4u. So the closest Beylix and Ezra get to each other is about 42.3Au, for a travel time of about 24-29 hours at Serenity's max accel/decel.
This does seem out of line with the episode as portrayed. Above Lemming has already admitted that the Map of the Verse did not intend to show a world which was shown in the U-Day bar scene, so perhaps this is just an admitted error on the part of this identification in The Map of the Verse.
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Itinerary for Shindig.
Start on Santo, on to Persephone.
Santo orbits protostar Qin Shi Huang, in the 8th orbital ring around White Sun. With Santo having about 2.2Au orbital radius, and QSH about 16.6Au orbital radius, the farthest Santo gets from White Sun is about 18.8Au.
The closest Persephone gets to White Sun is about 27.6Au. So the closest that Santo and Persephone could get to each other is about 8.8Au apart. This means a travel time of about 11-13 hours at Serenity's max accel/decel.
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Itinerary for Our Mrs. Reynolds.
Starts on Triumph, planned to go to Beaumonde, should take about 5-6 days.
Triumph orbits protostar Heinlein, which is in the 9th orbital ring of the Red Sun. Triumph is about 1.5Au from Heinlein, which is about 19.6Au from Red Sun. So the farthest Triumph gets from White Sun is about 89.1Au.
Beaumonde in the Kalidasa System gets as close as 107.6Au to White Sun. So at greatest proximity, Triumph and Beaumonde get about 18.5Au apart. This would be about 15-19 hours at Serenity's max accel/decel.
This is obviously well within the stated 5-6 day range. This also suggests Red Sun and Kalidasa are nowhere near their nearest orbital paths at this time of the year.
On the other hand, the greatest distance between them will be about 223Au. In 5 days (120hours), Serenity can travel 360Au at the slowest range of the max accel (not exceeding 3.3Au, under half speed of light). This seems to show that not only is Serenity not at max speed, but also Red Sun is about opposite in the system from Kalidasa.
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