Would a New Firefly/Serenity Work With Only Seven Crew-Members?
POSTED BY: Schism
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 16:40
VIEWED: 12783
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The fact that there was only seven of the crew on board Serenity for most of the movie does not alter the dynamics that there were all nine characters involved in the movie. If a Serenity 2 ever came out they would have to find at least one more crew member to fill the void of Wash's character. In my opinion Joss would have to bring back Ron Glass in a Serenity 2 movie because his character had so much intrigue that an entire movie could be shown with just his past, and his past has to be explained. Lots of great rock songs have three or four instruments in them, but in some the most dramatic use of an instrument is to not use it. I heard an AC/DC song live version once on the radio where if I remember it correctly was a little drumming in the beginning and maybe some at the end, but through the other parts of the song the drum was noticeably absent. I thought the song rocked just as it was, and a few days later I was listening to another rock radio station when another rock musician from a different band said that the drummer for AC/DC was one of the best drummers of all time because he not only knew how to play his drums but more importantly he knew when not to. I believe Joss most effectively used his characters in the movie Serenity by not having Inara and Book in certain parts of the movie, and for killing off Book and Wash for effect.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Schism:
I have to say, stepping back a few posts, that I would probably stop watching a new series or movie if they miraculously brought Wash back to life.
One of the reasons I like Firefly when I normally don't like sci-fi is that it takes a realistic approach (given, of course, the variables of uninvented technology).
Don't cheapen it with dreams of bad science fiction.
;p
Just to ask a silly question: do you think the U.S. Navy could support a nuclear-powered submarine by selling energy bars? Even if they were salvaged?
Maybe if they smuggled some cattle, too.
And yet, here we stand, Browncoats happily buying into the premise that a nuclear powered spaceship is paid for and maintained just like that. Author, Orsen Card Scott, said that Firefly was the most realistic SF show out there. But, I think really the realism was in part realistic characters reacting realistically in an often not quite real world. The idea that a single person can keep up after the maintenance on a space-going vessel, especially an old one prone to breaking is unrealistic in the highest order, even in projecting future developments from where we are now.
If Firefly were truly realistic, every one of the crew would be in jail or dead. The success of their criminal enterprises, and the fact that they never hurt or kill innocent people while committing crime is far more "Unrealistic" than Wash living through Serenity.
Also, this is a crew of identified "cop-killers".
In Ariel they broke into a highly secure core-world Alliance medical facility and stole a bunch of medicine.
Mal, Zoe, and Wash were almost certainly caught on camera and identified.
Jayne, Simon and River were actually apprehended.
Jayne personally killed one of the Alliance Feds and I'm sure the half dozen other cops' deaths were hung on the Serenity crew, not on duly authorized, Blue Hands, Alliance officers.
Think in Trash; when Saffron was hauled out of the trash container and the priceless Lassiter was gone, do you think she said "I don't know WHAT happened"?
Or do you think it is more likely she identified every one of Serenity's crew as having stolen a priceless artifact from a high-ranking, obviously wealthy Alliance officer?!
Think the 'verse is realistic far as people coming back from horrendous wounds in the 'verse? Jayne got a 3/4 inch diameter spear through the calf and was walking
around on it.
But the ALL-TIME-WINNER?
Has to be Dobson,
He got shot in the head with a pistol that Mal used to
DROP A HORSE IN IT'S TRACKS!
And Joss brought him back in the comic book.
So don't be givin' me this baloney that it's too unrealistic to bring
Wash back!
If we are going to pick and choose our un-realistic-ness, lets pick and choose what makes for the most entertaining story. I stand by my point that Wash's death didn't make the story any better, and that pretending to be "real" in such an "unrealistic" (but very fun) scenario isn't a benefit.
Mike
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Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:Quote:
Don't cheapen it with dreams of bad science fiction.
;p
Just to ask a silly question: do you think the U.S. Navy could support a nuclear-powered submarine by selling energy bars? Even if they were salvaged?
Maybe if they smuggled some cattle, too.
And yet, here we stand, Browncoats happily buying into the premise that a nuclear powered spaceship is paid for and maintained just like that.
I enjoyed this post, quite a bit. As fans of ANY show that walks the line of Sci-Fi, we have to engage our Willing Suspension of Disbelief. Hell, even shows like House and Grey's Anatomy, of which I've only seen a few episodes, whole and bits, require the viewer to accept the unrealistic. Sitcoms do the same with annoying out of shape men scoring super model wives.
So, while I don't know that bringing back Wash would be the RIGHT thing to do or if Joss would want to do that, I don't think it cheapens the death (Buffy died twice and as an avid BtVS fan, each time was meaningful and each time changed her and the playing field) nor would I call it "Bad Sci-fi" and if entrusted to Joss and team, I would doubt that it would come out anything less than wonderfully written and extremely moving.
But the show is gone. And we, as Browncoats, are left with our thoughts.
And I think someone wanting Wash back is a valid thought, just as all the fanfic hosted on this site is valid. If something isn't your cup of tea, that's cool. Doesn't mean that it's outside the realm of possibility inside a universe with established rules that are outside the realm of "realistic" possibility.
That's why Sci-Fi is so popular.
~**~
"How come you're flying about with us brigands? I mean, shouldn't you be off bringing religiosity to the Fuzzie-Wuzzies or some such?"~Cap'n Mal
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And he was shot in his ONE REMAINING EYE like five minutes after he showed up again. That was PRICELESS. I love that scene.
Unrealistic ain't all bad, sometimes. XD
As for the upkeep and maintenance of Serenity the prices of fuel and parts right now would make it unfeasible, but we're led to understand that space travel has become a mite more affordable 400 years from now. With 70 different inhabitable planets and moons in the verse, the people probably have a lot more access to the resources necessary to produce those parts and fuel. I get the impression the spaceship industry is kind of like the ocean nowadays. Sure, you get the rich people with their yachts, and you get the very impressive military ships, But you also get the dirt cheap, somewhat poorly maintained ships with small crews. Like fishing boats. Normally, using this same analogy, a big corporate frieghtor would be more likely to replace a small business transport like Serenity... But we're given to understand that that's more in the Core, and on the border worlds and rim people aren't able to afford shipments like that, or even service those freightors.
Good point on their criminal record though.
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Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:Quote:
Originally posted by Schism:
I have to say, stepping back a few posts, that I would probably stop watching a new series or movie if they miraculously brought Wash back to life.
One of the reasons I like Firefly when I normally don't like sci-fi is that it takes a realistic approach (given, of course, the variables of uninvented technology).
Don't cheapen it with dreams of bad science fiction.
;p
Nobody ever said that Serenity was a nuclear ship, and that is just your lack of imagination which labels it so. I honestly think that Serenity probably runs on Hydrogen Anti-Matter which at this time in reality is very difficult to make, but it could be easy in the future to make and the scale of economy could make the hydrogen anti-matter cheap enough. I think it was addressed in the show that a heard of cattle was a very expensive commodity in the ‘verse. BTW if Serenity were a nuclear ship that would actually mean that the ship wouldn’t need refueling but about every thirty years, sort of like our nuclear carriers. If the ship were a nuclear fusion ship it would be even cheaper to fuel.
Just to ask a silly question: do you think the U.S. Navy could support a nuclear-powered submarine by selling energy bars? Even if they were salvaged?
Maybe if they smuggled some cattle, too.
And yet, here we stand, Browncoats happily buying into the premise that a nuclear powered spaceship is paid for and maintained just like that. Author, Orsen Card Scott, said that Firefly was the most realistic SF show out there. But, I think really the realism was in part realistic characters reacting realistically in an often not quite real world. The idea that a single person can keep up after the maintenance on a space-going vessel, especially an old one prone to breaking is unrealistic in the highest order, even in projecting future developments from where we are now.
If Firefly were truly realistic, every one of the crew would be in jail or dead. The success of their criminal enterprises, and the fact that they never hurt or kill innocent people while committing crime is far more "Unrealistic" than Wash living through Serenity.
Also, this is a crew of identified "cop-killers".
In Ariel they broke into a highly secure core-world Alliance medical facility and stole a bunch of medicine.
Mal, Zoe, and Wash were almost certainly caught on camera and identified.
Jayne, Simon and River were actually apprehended.
Jayne personally killed one of the Alliance Feds and I'm sure the half dozen other cops' deaths were hung on the Serenity crew, not on duly authorized, Blue Hands, Alliance officers.
Think in Trash; when Saffron was hauled out of the trash container and the priceless Lassiter was gone, do you think she said "I don't know WHAT happened"?
Or do you think it is more likely she identified every one of Serenity's crew as having stolen a priceless artifact from a high-ranking, obviously wealthy Alliance officer?!
Think the 'verse is realistic far as people coming back from horrendous wounds in the 'verse? Jayne got a 3/4 inch diameter spear through the calf and was walking
around on it.
But the ALL-TIME-WINNER?
Has to be Dobson,
He got shot in the head with a pistol that Mal used to
DROP A HORSE IN IT'S TRACKS!
And Joss brought him back in the comic book.
So don't be givin' me this baloney that it's too unrealistic to bring
Wash back!
If we are going to pick and choose our un-realistic-ness, lets pick and choose what makes for the most entertaining story. I stand by my point that Wash's death didn't make the story any better, and that pretending to be "real" in such an "unrealistic" (but very fun) scenario isn't a benefit.
Mike
Nobody ever said that Serenity was a nuclear ship, and that is just your lack of imagination which labels it so. I honestly think that Serenity probably runs on Hydrogen Anti-Matter which at this time in reality is very difficult to make, but it could be easy in the future t
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From what I remember reading (and this is from the Serenity RP manual, which I understand some people don't consider canon), Serenity's engines have three essential components. She has a fusion engine, which is what lights up when she fires, and which if the core containment is not properly maintained can leak radiation (Reaver ships). She has an electric engine which I think might draw power from the fusion engine and a hydraulic system associated with it, which I think in turn runs the electrical systems and possibly the vertical take off and landing engines on her wings. And she has an anti-gravity system which can be used to move somehow and which also helps make things nice and non-fatal for the crew. Algae (gas exchange) based life support is also built into the engine and apparently recieves power from it in some way, but is not a component of engine function.
I'll check my book when I get home for any mistakes and for more specific information.
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The technology side of things I won't get into realistic or unrealistic, cos who knows where we'll stand in 50 years time, given the technology explosion of the last, hell, TEN years.
Point in case (or is that case in point?), I was watching an episode of Star Trek TNG (no, i'm not a trekkie, i was just bored), and the captian was with some chick and they were playing instruments. The captian had a whistle or something lame, and the woman he was with unrolled a keyboard. It was rolled up like a long narrow blanket, but once unrolled, it played like a keyboard.
My mum, walking by at the time, said "oh how unrealistic is that??".
That was in '94 or thereabouts.
Skip forward to '08, there was one in the Sears Wishbook and I almost bought it for my daughter for Christmas.
;p
A 'nuclear' ship that can be patched up to run through space may not be realistic, or could be plausible in 100 years. It's not the validity of the unknown that i call unrealistic, but rather those unknowns in the real world (like light-speed, for example).
Anyway, my point is, bringing someone back from the dead is not realistic. If we found a technology for that then the world/universe would be in trouble, the population boom would be impossible to control, and the moral implications of knowing one's time would be...well...quite interesting really.
Let the dead rest.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
From what I remember reading (and this is from the Serenity RP manual, which I understand some people don't consider canon), Serenity's engines have three essential components. She has a fusion engine, which is what lights up when she fires, and which if the core containment is not properly maintained can leak radiation (Reaver ships). She has an electric engine which I think might draw power from the fusion engine and a hydraulic system, which I think in turn runs the electrical systems and possibly the vertical take off and landing engines on her wings. And she has an anti-gravity system which can be used to move somehow and which also helps make things nice and non-fatal for the crew. Algae (gas exchange) based life support is also built into the engine and apparently recieves power from it in some way, but is not a component of engine function.
I'll check my book when I get home for any mistakes and for more specific information.
I could see a fusion engine being used, which would be very easy to get fuel for, even if one wasn't near civilization, because all you would need to do is gather up hydrogen from either water or atmosphere. If an anti matter engine were used it would be trickier but not impossible to get fuel from the wilds because if in the future the making of anti-matter was easier the crew could probably be able to convert their hydrogen fuel into hydrogen anti-matter fuel.
I am familiar with a bussard fusion engine and have always wondered how it would propel a starship forward. I imagined it would probably provide energy to another type of engine which would take that power and convert it to some form of propulsion like maybe a rocket or maybe something else. What do you guys think?
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Schism: That's one of the reasons that'd be an interesting storyline for Wash. The Alliance would want to control any mechanism by which people can be brought back to life.
I honestly think one of the reasons Joss killed Wash off is because he doesn't HAVE any deep scary backstory or secrets, apart from the POW doing shadow puppet plays idea that Alan suggested.
Rallem: good point about the actual PUSH for Serenity. Unless they're actually releasing the super-heated plasma to give them forward propulsion in a controlled fusion reaction, they can't go anywhere. That might be one of the things I'm not remembering.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Schism:
The technology side of things I won't get into realistic or unrealistic, cos who knows where we'll stand in 50 years time, given the technology explosion of the last, hell, TEN years.
Point in case (or is that case in point?), I was watching an episode of Star Trek TNG (no, i'm not a trekkie, i was just bored), and the captian was with some chick and they were playing instruments. The captian had a whistle or something lame, and the woman he was with unrolled a keyboard. It was rolled up like a long narrow blanket, but once unrolled, it played like a keyboard.
My mum, walking by at the time, said "oh how unrealistic is that??".
That was in '94 or thereabouts.
Skip forward to '08, there was one in the Sears Wishbook and I almost bought it for my daughter for Christmas.
;p
A 'nuclear' ship that can be patched up to run through space may not be realistic, or could be plausible in 100 years. It's not the validity of the unknown that i call unrealistic, but rather those unknowns in the real world (like light-speed, for example).
Anyway, my point is, bringing someone back from the dead is not realistic. If we found a technology for that then the world/universe would be in trouble, the population boom would be impossible to control, and the moral implications of knowing one's time would be...well...quite interesting really.
Let the dead rest.
I know in the 'verse Joss said that the light barrier hadn't been broken and no ships can travel as fast as light. I know this begs the question how did mankind get to another galaxy without light travel, but he answered that question by saying something to the effect that it doesn't really matter, and let it go.
I don’t remember the episode you were talking about where Piccard was playing the tin whistle with a woman exactly, but I do remember him crawling into a Jeffries tube to play with that woman, and I do remember the episode where he got that whistle.
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