USA was 3 hrs away from Economic, Political Collapse... last Sept.

POSTED BY: pizmobeach
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 4, 2026 11:44
VIEWED: 42658
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KWICKO

Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
So I don't see how any of their economic success could be credited to socialism, since the only aspect of these countries that is (vaguely) socialistic is an economic burden.

Seems more a vague ideological dismissal of evidence than anything else. You're unwarrantably dismissing any positive effects these "socialistic economic burdens" may have on society and it's economy. Perhaps they're not net burdens? Perhaps they cost on the front end, and pay for themselves many times over on the back.

I think it's interesting that the more heavily socialism plays in the states of Europe, the better their economies perform per-capita. Denmark for instance, probably one of if not the most socialist of all the states of Europe, is the second highest per capita economy in the world. It's outstripped only by Luxembourg, which is a tiny principality and tax haven for the rich.

While your calling them 'soft-socialism' and remarking on how all the success is really down to capitalism, you might want to remember that the implication of 'soft-socialism' is that they're also operating 'soft-capitalism'. I'd put it that neither socialism OR capitalism really create a workable system, which is why no state has successfully implemented either (try to find a purely capitalist society now or in history). It's pretty clear to me, that Capitalism can't function without 'socialist' programs like the police, like a universal education system, hell like the dole and even universal health care. Think about it, you fall ill you can't work. You lose your job and there's no safety net, you might never again become a productive member of society, I'd be willing to bet that's more costly to the economy overall than the cost of the programs in the first place.

Your statement could be fairly easily turned on it's head. Perhaps the success of these countries is all down to socialism, and Capitalism is just a social drag, that helps pay for it.
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Are you guys all still waiting for an exemplary, purely socialist, model state that you can hail as a success? Because a lot of times people have got hold of countries and tried to create one... I'd be interested to know how you account for quite a long catalogue of failures.

There have never been any socialist states. Show me an example of one. There's been some communist ones, and a few that have called themselves socialist, but that's a different thing entirely. As I said elsewhere, the Democratic Republic of Congo is neither Democratic, a Republic, or in the Congo (which is a river that runs through it, also known as the zaire).

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

Cit:

THANK YOU!!

I think you're on the right track; countries like Sweden, Canada, and Denmark DO have more "socialism" than other "capitalist" countries - yet they still somehow work BETTER than many other nations. How can that be? Could it be that BECAUSE of the social programs, people are better prepared and more able to work harder and be more competitive?

Imagine this: Your tax rate is some 40 percent - $40 out of every $100 that you earn goes straight to the government, before you even get your check. BUT you pay no health insurance; you pay no income tax, nor sales tax, nor property taxes, nor luxury taxes. You pay no tuition - if you want to go to college, you show up and enroll. If you want to go to a shrink, you show up and talk about your mother (do ALL shrinks start with your mother?). You want to go on vacation? Go for it - you've got time off, paid.

So the 60% of your pay that actually goes home with you is YOURS - you can buy a car with it (but your car insurance is paid already), get a bigger house, buy clothes, buy stinky cheese and strong, room-temperature beer, whatev

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Pizmo

If you are looking for non-obvious places in the home may I suggest the compressor compartment in your refrigerator ? Or the gap behind the kickplate under your kitchen counters ?
.

Sorry, first place my wife would look.

RUE

Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:23 PM

Most people would look in closets and cupboards and under beds. Some people might look in freezers and toilet tanks. Your wife must be one of those a natural-born finders. But, not to be toooooooo nosy or anything like that - why would you not want your wife to find the family money ?

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Oh, just b/c it tickles me - my car - which is 95 Corolla SW - has two modifications. One is a toggle switch on the dash that disables the front passenger door electronic door lock (due to transporting a family member who has lots of seizures where they do goofy things like play with the lock and seat belt - called automatisms.) The other is an ignition switch built in to the cigarette lighter. I always get a giggle thinking that anyone trying to steal the car will be flipping the toggle back and forth trying to make the car start.

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
According to Rep. Paul Kanjorski (D) (PA-11), in mid-September of 2008, the United States of America came just three hours away from the collapse of the entire economy.

Rep. Kanjorski: "It would have been the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it."

I don't believe any of that, never did, never will. The crooks who stole all the money from Wall Street were and are the same crooks who got all the Federal Tarp money. What did they do with it? I think everryone knows what they did with it. It's all total bullshit, and until these bastards are arrested, prosecuted, and convicted for their crimes, no one will have any confidence to invest a dime in the rigged Wall Street shell game.

SIGNYM

Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:09 PM

Quote:
anyone trying to steal the car will be flipping the toggle back and forth trying to make the car start.

Bweh heh heh heh!!!

Oh, that's just.... MEAN!!!!

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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

RUE

Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:11 PM

For those (Hero) who still think the problem is a merely few failed US banks:

http://www.rgemonitor.com/

Asia Amid Global Crisis: It's Different This Time; Will the Recovery Be Different Too?
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U.S. Oil and Gas Demand and Supply: A Sharp Build in Inventories, Still Bearish For Oil?
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Chinese Exports Contract by 17.5% in January How Deep Will the Export Slump Get?
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Will Russia Restructure Its Corporate Debt?

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Silence is consent.

SIGNYM

Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:19 PM

Quote:
I don't believe any of that, never did, never will. The crooks who stole all the money from Wall Street were and are the same crooks who got all the Federal Tarp money. What did they do with it? I think everryone knows what they did with it. It's all total bullshit, and until these bastards are arrested, prosecuted, and convicted for their crimes, no one will have any confidence to invest a dime in the rigged Wall Street shell game.

The problem is JS that both can be true at the same time: The system WAS within hours of collapsing AND its was rigged. It was an economic game of chicken.

Waaaaay back when in May 08 or thereabouts, long before the collapse was being talked about by anyone (but Roubini and me!) I found an interesting analysis by a UBS economist. Basically he tallied up the risks, looked at all of the leverage and said: A bailout by October (2008) is a sure thing. Because nobody would let the system fail. So the PTB drove the system over a cliff then got their golden parachutes. And WE, poor sods, had to ante up because we were going to rooked no matter what.

I'll see if I can find that quote. It was damn chilling.

String them up and take their money. That's MY view.

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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:21 PM

You know what we need to do?

Restructure our cash.

Insert strips of gold into every dollar, more in 5s and 10s. 100s get platinum. Change gets copper.

Money would then have intrinsic value.

Just shooting that out there.

SIGNYM

Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:31 PM

Here it is (from the Financial Times of London):

"A homeowners' bailout by U.S. Congress is a "surefire thing", according to George Magnus, UBS senior economic advisor, and the first bailout package is likely to be implemented by October...

Looking at the losses in subprime and collateralised debt obligations and related instruments, including the spillover into leveraged loans, for example, certainly colleagues and I think that it's something of the order of about $500 or $600 billion, which would make it on a scale of the banking crisis of Japan between 1990 and 1994. But I'm afraid we're still counting, because on top of all of these problems that we've had, of course, the US economy is in or close to being in a recession and the European economy is clearly slowing down very significantly... If you want to take a sort of a round number, something close to $1,000 billion at the end of the day is not an impossible number...

I think the central banks are, or at least the Federal Reserve, I think, has taken out a very, very extreme form of insurance against this sort of meltdown. And, clearly, the speed and the rapidity with which interest rates have come down is indicative of that, and most people agree that that's not the end of the story that the Federal Reserve will carry on cutting interest rates maybe at least another 100 basis points... But, actually, it's only a part of the solution...

I think that a bailout for homeowners in the United States is as close to a surefire thing as I can imagine. The losses on mortgages are so high and the stories and estimates which, perhaps, more significantly, people make about repossessions and delinquencies in the housing market are so high that, especially in a presidential election year, I think it's just inevitable that there will be very strong action from the Congress...

And I think we have something of a time limit too because, of course, in October the US Congress goes into recess and the new Congress won't reconvene, I suppose, until after the State of the Union message in late January 2009. So by the time they get round to action it might actually be quite late in the day, so I think the first bailout package, to be honest, I think is going to happen between now and the end of October."

Unfortuantely, the bailout didn't go to the homeowners but the the very richest of the rich.

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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.

RUE

Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:42 PM

I also remember reading this when it was recirculated by the media late last year:

RBS Says Switch to Cash to Avoid 'Nasty' Selloff

CNBC.com | 18 Jun 2008 | 06:32 AM ET

The Royal Bank of Scotland issued a stark warning to investors Wednesday, stating global stock and credit markets could be on the verge of a steep market sell-off as central banks have their hands tied by soaring inflation, the Telegraph reported.

"A very nasty period is soon to be upon us - be prepared," Bob Janjuah, credit strategist at RBS, told the UK daily paper.

The S&P 500 index is likely to slump by more than 300 points by September, according to a report from the bank’s research team, as "all the chickens come home to roost" from over-easy lending practices and other excesses of the global boom period, the report quoted by the Telegraph said.

"I do not think I can be much blunter. If you have to be in credit, focus on quality, short durations, non-cyclical defensive names. Cash is the key safe haven. This is about not losing your money, and not losing your job," Janjuah told the paper

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Silence is consent.

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