Kaylee's sexuality. Was it toned down?

POSTED BY: stillson
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 09:40
VIEWED: 9140
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BYTEMITE

Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:40 PM

THAT'S what he said? But he says that about EVERY relationship!

(/jk... Sort of)

PLATONIST

Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:24 AM

Unfortunately, yeah, he did, on the Aussie Q&A found on the Serenity CE DVD.

From my observation, of his pattern, once viewers buy into a relationship and we see the sexual aspect, he ends it, like he's done with it...by this standard Mal and Inara could have lasted a long time, the run of the series:) and that’s probably why they didn’t go flying into each other’s arms at the end of BDM. OK, I’m not buying into it.

Joss is truly twisted.

PHOENIXROSE

Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:31 AM

Yeah, as I became more and more familiar with Joss's work, I got more and more annoyed at the amount of fanfic that depicted the Simon/Kaylee relationship as perfect and wonderful, with marriage and babies. I'm not saying there wasn't any caring there, clearly there was. But there was a good deal of caring between, say, Xander and Anya. ...Who were not in love when they first had sex, now that I'm thinking about it. But anyway, that fell apart, not when sex entered the equation but when marriage did. Things end a lot with this brand of storytelling. And if a character can't flub it up convincingly, they just get shot or something
I would really love to read a convincingly done story about Simon and Kaylee falling apart, and how that would work out on a spaceship. There's close quarters, you can't go to the next city and pop back by from time to time, you can't run away to find yourself and come back, you can't easily go back to your old life to see if that's where you really belong after all. Basically the emotion and issues that would come up can't be avoided. It would be a whole new realm of conflict. It would, I think, be very interesting to see play out.

...Man, now I'm all lack-of-show-depressed again.

[/sig]

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Yes. The original show title was "Kaylee does the Verse"

Seriously, though: Undoubtedly there was editing, due to things deemed inappropriate. The Simon/River incest scene was deleted after all.

But so was the Inara & River skinnydipping scene. Not for the storytelling angle.

I agree with most of Phoenixrose's post on this subject.
Kaylee was perfectly willing to boink Simon from the get go. She had no likely plans to stay with Bester or illusions it would be a lasting experience, effectively a passing stranger - but engines make her hot. Tracey would have been a diversion she would have taken.
She's not ashamed, she is not a slave to her sexuality, she is free. Many here keep trying to claim that makes her a slut, when in fact it does not, merely their shamed guilt transferance.
She clearly expected that grappling with Simon would be a longer-term affair (hopefully), not strictly just a one-time romp - it held potential, somebody hanging around for awhile. She kept trying, even when he seemed to b eignoring her, or insulting her (who would want to live here?). She did not shy away from the longer term playing, but when it did not materialize, she was willing to take what offerings she could find (even flirting with Wash in HoG). Had she paired with Simon, I think she would not have been available to others - and the sleeping around is what most folks mean by "slutty" - so it does not apply to Kaylee.

Consider that it was Jewel alone who had the least amount of nekkidness in the series.

Kaylee's relationship with Jayne seemed to work an arc - consider his "stop her from being cheerful" and her ignoring him while kissing Mal to their comfy exchange in the cargo bay in BDM, dumping the Reaver carcass. Even his crouching by the infirmary while she was under the knife was furtive, not in-your-face-I'm-watching-out-for-her.

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:51 AM

Great thread! This is why is love this site. You guys are right on the money with your comments. I'm gonna add a little, just a little:

I don't think Kaylee's sexuality was toned down at all, it was what is was. What I mean is that it was out there for all to see and she made no apology for it, it was her way. Kaylee, as someone rightly put it, wore her heart firmly on her sleeve. Her compassion for all creatures great and small was what made her special to the crew, and, in particular, to the Captain.

But what Joss presented us with in Kaylee, in relation to the other characters, was a look into the profound complexities of a woman who appeared on the surface to be simple and innocent. Of course this is in juxtaposition to the other women on board. You guys mentioned Inara and how each approaches sex in the series - Inara is a businesswoman, although no less spiritual than is Kaylee when it comes to there take on the 'verse.

Inara uses her mind, body and spirit, not only to survive in the 'verse, but as a way of helping her clients heal. It is her contribution. Both women offer their spirituality as a form of communication.
Kaylee interacts with the 'verse on a much more gut level plane than Inara, who is more ethereal.
Each is a romantic at heart, perhaps why they get along so well, but each uses her spiritual intuition - Kaylee is so much more in tune with Serenity than anyone save River and Inara combines her spirituality with wisdom carefully choosing her responses and actions. Sex for Kaylee is nothing more than a part of life, she loves it as much as she loves Serenity, Inara or her captain. That's what makes her a BDH.

Kaylee sees sex as something as natural as brushing her teeth, taking a bath or even eating. Along comes Simon and it throws her for a loop. With Bester, I imagine, she jumped his bones in a fairly straightforward manner, but with Simon it was something different. Whoever said that Kaylee does not behave like a skank was absolutely right.

We get that she's a "good girl" who happens to like sex and is not ashamed of it, but embraces it as the natural flow of things human. With Simon she wasn't quite sure what he thought of her, especially because he was so preoccupied with "looking after" River. But throughout the series we get reveals into Kaylee's character.

From the pilot up to OoG, we get to know Kaylee is the "cheerful sister" whom everyone loves and protects. She is the "good girl." But in OoG, we learn that, not only is she better than the genius mechanic, but that she's a free spirit who enjoys life. We further get that Kaylee is Earth Mother, a lovely child-like innocent who happens to be trapped in an adult female's body. In the following episodes we get glimpses into Kaylee's attitude towards sex. And now Jayne's comment, and her reaction, in the pilot makes sense.

You know, you learn something new everyday. Joss's story about these 9 people gets more interesting with time (and several viewings).

SGG

Tawabawho?

KPO

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:36 AM

Quote:
My point though, is was her sexuality toned down to make her a "Nice Girl".

Haha no, I feel the times when she is overtly sexual come out of the blue, as if the writer is making a point - the opposite of her sexuality being 'toned down' I think.

But I think I'm like you in that this aspect of her character has always struck me as quite artificial.

I would guess Joss already had his "Nice Girl" character but then asked; 'why shouldn't a sweet, innocent female character also be sex-positive?' Which is an interesting question, but one I'm not convinced, with an easy, straightforward answer...

Quote:
Was Joss trying to sneak a sex-positive character into his series? Probably. But was she toned down to make her likable?

I think sex-positive characters can be likable. The question in my mind is whether a sex-positive, overtly sexual character can also be nice, sweet and innocent...

Heads should roll

ASARIAN

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:14 AM

I say Kaylee's sexuality detracts nothing from her innocence. Ere the opposite: she's in many ways childlike in her perceptions of the world (and her dealings therein). She's isn't burdened by layers of religious guilt, causing self-loathing and shame because of the dreaded 'thorn in the flesh,' as St. Paul once called it. She simply enjoys herself having sex. That's all. She's neither obsessed by it, nor really shy of it. Like a child, partaking of the many fruits life has to offer, she simply sees no harm in having sex, nor seeks to do harm with it. It don't get more innocent than that, really. It's only when a society stigmatizes sex as evil, tells teenage kids that, while in their dorms, the 'Always three feet on the ground rule' applies when having visitors, etc., that sex suddenly makes one 'guilty'.

Don't be shooting me now, but Kaylee's "nothing twixt my nethers...." comment, by the way, while hilarious, has always struck me as bordering on being vulgar. It's my estimation that said line was just a mite off, and not entirely true to Kaylee's origninal Firefly persona. But that may just be me.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

RIPWASH

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:58 PM

I don't know if I'm way off here, but in the pilot "Serenity", I got the strong sense the Kaylee was perhaps meant to be gay. Or maybe bisexual. Now I'm basing this soley on her initial interaction with Inara and Jayne's comments. Those comments, however, could have just been Jayne trying to tick people off.

"I don't mean to alarm anyone . . . but I think we're being followed."

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:18 PM

The only thing I see that might lend credence to that is Kaylee trying to " tone things down " would be to placate Simon. He's a different sort than she's use to , and they've had a discussion as to why he gets all stiff and formal at times, and at other times, he's very laid back and casual. I don't recall any specific time when Kaylee's held anything back.....she's a bit of a free spirit. She had SEX in the engine room of a firefly with a mechanic she ( likely ) had just met !!

Poor girl's been living a chaste life ever since Simon came aboard.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
The official statement is that Kaylee LOVES Simon, and apparently that had to be the case before the two of them could have sex.

So "With me...? You mean to say... as in... sex?" is the new "I love you" is it?

[/sig]

Harder to have a one night stand if you're both cooped up in a space ship, dear. Kaylee might be a bit randy, but she's smart enough to know that it's better to know and like the person you're bumpin' uglies with if both of y'all are going ot be spending long periods of time between planets.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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