Is thinking that Serenity is not the best SF film ever made a form of insanity?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 16:03
VIEWED: 2921
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KWICKO

Monday, January 19, 2009 11:31 PM

And Casablanca is just about a guy and a gal, huh?

The not at all serious Kwickoisall.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

ECGORDON

Monday, January 19, 2009 11:36 PM

Chris, you may be insane, but not necessarily for this reason, even though I still don't agree with you.

I've said many times that 2001: A Space Odyssey is the best SF film of all time, and it's #3 overall of any type of film on my list.

Blade Runner is my second favorite SF film, but it doesn't make it into my Top 10 overall, maybe the Top 20.

Serenity is the third best SF film I have ever seen (and I've seen most of them). Not sure where it will eventually end up on my complete list.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:

I've said many times that 2001: A Space Odyssey is the best SF film of all time

A small piece of my mind says that 2001 and Solaris fit the bill for best SF of all time, but the rest of me rebels, is independent, and says again that Serenity beats them both out!!!

The maybe-it's-the-Pax Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And Casablanca is just about a guy and a gal, huh?

I thought it was all about Sam....

The confused Chrisisall

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:30 AM

In my defense, I don't think Star Wars: A New Hope was ever meant to be deep, but rather to be simply enjoyed. I think that's where the newer movies lost their way, they tried to be more than that.

But yes, being that it's such a simple story, other Sci-Fi movies can easily qualify as better. And I think Serenity IS one of them.

I enjoy them both.

And I also think discussing soft Sci-Fi versus hard Sci-Fi may be like the old apples to oranges metaphor. Can you really compare a movie like 2001 to Serenity? They're different on so many levels.

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Can you really compare a movie like 2001 to Serenity? They're different on so many levels.

Yeah, Serenity is more human. The most human character in 2001 is HAL (which is, I suppose, the point).

The IBM Chrisisall

CHRISTHECYNIC

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 1:56 AM

[cheating]
When I first showed Firefly to one of my friends his shocked response was that it was movie quality.

With that in mind, I think the episode Serenity is the best SF film of all time. A bit on the short side though. (Though Out of Gas is my favorite episode.)
[/cheating]

Personally, I disapprove of Science Fiction as a genre. I have yet to meet a story that can't be told in Sci Fi, I have yet to meet a genre that can't be fit in Sci Fi. It is too broad to be meaningful.

Also, generally speaking I set Firefly and Serenity aside so that others might have a chance.

Add to that the fact that I don't usually pick favorites and ... I'm insane anyway. Seriously, why am I even talking about this?

That said I'm not thinking Serenity is not the best SF Film of all time, I'm just not thinking it is. Consider me agnostic on best. I avoid naming something best the way I might avoid a plague.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 4:25 AM

There's a lot of competition to overcome.
If you're saying Pilot Serenity is tops, that's a better argument.
Terminator, Galaxy Quest, Road Warrior, Aliens, Matrix, and even Total Recall had most of the points you bring up.

I know some feel 2001: is the be all to end all, but I'm not there. I'll go with BDM over that.
I can be agnostic for this thread.

JOKERMONT

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 1:01 PM

Sci-fi is cursed with being a genre that is referred to as being shallow. Generic themes repeated over and over again. Similar plot lines. Aliens. Advanced weaponry. 2 dimensional characters that fit their role very well, but don't expand upon it throughout their series.
This is where Firefly differed as I'm sure we all know here. The characters were so true to life in different ways. There were no aliens. There were monsters, but human monsters similar to human monsters that exist in our own Universe. Our protagonist grew and learned throughout Firefly, but not just how to be braver or stronger, but also how to deal with his closeness to other human beings which is something that is very noticeable from the Serenity episode to the film. All the characters focused around him each had their own 3 dimensional personalities. They all learned, about each other as well as themselves and they all, in their own ways, grew.

I think this is what made the BDM such a great film. We knew the characters so well. They weren't shallow. Not remotely. We'd watched them advance through Firefly (through some incredible scripting) and although some personalities had to be taken back a notch (like Mal and Simon) due to the relationship between them having to arc from the beginning again to satisfy that yearning for a relationship growth in a feature length piece, we still felt close to them more than you can, I think, in any other sci-fi movie. We love them. From the off. I don't think a love can be beaten by anything.

So, to answer your question.
I think it is the greatest sci-fi film ever.
Maybe not for it's technical aspects as a film, but for it's former relationship between the audience and Firefly.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 20, 2009 3:46 PM

Chris,

Ya got me. You know that I'm insane, so I'm going to have to go with no. There were parts of BDM I thought were awesome, I even liked when wash got killed, because it was a "no more mr. nice guy" moment.

As a through story, Serenity BDM was slightly disappointing. The high points were River going psycho. Actually, I thought the first one was brilliant, the seen where she goes all Manchurian Candidate on us, which, lets face it, is what this story is.

There are no new stories. Everything is built on older stories, and probably the most innovative non-anime/manga stories, Philip K Dick. There's a man who boldly went where no man had gone before. The best of these is Bladerunner, because Dick was still alive to edit the script, still, there are flaws, particularly in the editing. If all you got out of this film was slavery, then I think you missed the point.

Serenity didn't break new ground, it travelled old ground. It's a great episode of Firefly, not entirely consistent with the rest, but I'm not even sure it's the best episode of Firefly.

There are innovations and twists that could have been used here. The film was uplifting, triumphant, and unrealistic. The whole Mr. Universe thing didn't work for me. Reaver science also flunked chem101. This is a Verse of tragedy. The tragic story doesn't necessarily end in everyone dying. But it's also a western. I think you ride off into the sunset, but I don't think you set everything right with the world.

Twisted is what I like. River should have turned on the crew. Killed someone. On of the characters who was going to die anyway. I would have loved the thing to take the somewhat obvious turn that it took, which is River as a reaveresque manchurian candidate, I have to say I saw that one coming from maybe ep. 1, but that's what made the story of the show so great. We all knew it wasn't Jayne who was a danger to the crew. There were times went I thought Book might be a serious threat, but it didn't materialize.

Overall, it was a good movie. I saw it in a mixed group of half Firefly fans and half not. It was a clean split. Everyone liked it, but the non-fans put it up there with a 7-8, and the fans were like on 9-10 imdb. One of the non fans actually was enthusiatic, he said "wow, there's more of this stuff? Where can I get it?

Also, I know that the film that I was waiting for was one which glimpsed into the shadows of the beyong the rim, so to speak, hints, leading us in to more story. I think Joss had something like this planned, but the time came and he knew it was a one shot deal, and there was not going to be a serenity two. This is a tough position to be in as a story teller. Still, knowing there were other venues, I would have had less of a final showdown, and more of a creepy setup.

Okay, sure, I can nitpick Bladerunner and just about everything (major flaws: editing. The repetition, flashbacks to 15 minutes ago, the bogus voiceover that no one wanted except the ex. producer, or the unicorn Legend splice which totally changed the meaning of Almos' last origami.) We don't need to be hit over the head with that conclusion, it's so obvious in the film already. But the main flaw in the film is the showdown, again. It comes down to fist fight stuff. Our defenders have IQs of 200, they can come up with something insanely clever, not just insane. Only Pris Stratton does anything remotely clever here. I guess Roy Batty's chess finesse, but both of them blow it by ditching the clever in front of the insane. I mean, honestly, guys, If we, the human viewer, can figure it out, surely the characters can, given how smart they should be. Kudos though to Hannah for one of the sexiest performances ever.

God does this even need a spoiler? You guys have seen this film a dozen times

Select to view spoiler:

The film is not about slavery, it's about nexus 7 replacing nexus 6, ie. evolution, or planned obsolescence. It's a tragedy.

Star Wars was the first film I saw, I was young, and I was scared, but it was awesome. I'd say most films were a disappointment a

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