Israel Vs. Palestine: Evil Scorecard
POSTED BY: pizmobeach
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 1, 2025 19:27
VIEWED: 9289
PAGE 7 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
These threads, no offense to the intelligent people who post them and on them, seem counter productive.
It doesn't really matter that much which side is more wrong, there's not going to be any change without diplomatic intervention, and at the moment, only Obama, or tptb forbid, Ms. Clinton can take that up.
It's interesting to discuss, but we do spend to spend a fair amount of time lobbing bombs at one another, and that time could be better spent. Not to mention, we seem to have broken River in the process. Maybe she'll recover and go back to being her old self. If she's beyond repair, then we'll have to go fetch another one.
Counter productive to whom? This thread was started to get away from the spewfest that was going on about this topic elsewhere. So far it's been very civil and informative, no bombs lobbed and no blood or tears spilled and no naughty words.
The only problem is trying to read through all the stuff Gino posts.
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But it all comes back to... this is in Israel's hands to solve. Israel creates most of the problems, Israel is the super-power of the region, and if they really want peace they need to stop pretending to be terrified victims and start behaving like grownups. They should take a lesson from post-WWII reconstruction and start building a peace. And if not, we should just shut off military aid, and eventually foreign aid.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But it all comes back to... this is in Israel's hands to solve. Israel creates most of the problems, Israel is the super-power of the region, and if they really want peace they need to stop pretending to be terrified victims and start behaving like grownups. They should take a lesson from post-WWII reconstruction and start building a peace. And if not, we should just shut off military aid, and eventually foreign aid.
You're not trying to stir up trouble on my happy thread are you?
It all comes back plenty of blame for both sides, ages of bad intentions. They will be most likely brought to some kind of bargaining table and a cease fire by someone who doesn't have too much negative baggage yet (actually Egypt might be able to, but not the UN) - most likely B.O.
Amidst all of this suckage there's a huge opportunity to broadcast a LOUD signal of who he is and how he intends to handle world affairs.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Mind you look at some past acts...
Well, it's nice to see that you've dropped any pretense of balance and come out as a flaming anti-semite at last.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
History isn't balance ?
or are you denying these things happened Geez
The way I see it you are standing judgement on one groups actions without even questioning the actions of the other group
shall I call you a bigot ?
I would rather not go there
Lets party like its 1939
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But it all comes back to... this is in Israel's hands to solve. Israel creates most of the problems, Israel is the super-power of the region, and if they really want peace they need to stop pretending to be terrified victims and start behaving like grownups. They should take a lesson from post-WWII reconstruction and start building a peace. And if not, we should just shut off military aid, and eventually foreign aid.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.
or we wait until Iran builds some nukes, and we can see if that creates a level playing field.
Nothing brings out honest negotiation like fear of losing.
Lets party like its 1939
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Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Bin Laden, on Tape, Urges Holy War Over Gaza
Wed Jan 14th
Mr. Potato Head "Re-re-resurfaces"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/world/middleeast/15mideast.html?_r=1
&ref=world
from the article:
“There is only one strong way to bring the return of Al Aqsa and Palestine, and that is jihad in the path of God,” Mr. bin Laden said in the 22-minute audiotape, according to The Associated Press. “The duty is to urge people to jihad and to enlist the youth into jihad brigades.”
Given imho that we need an ally in that region, and given this kind of behaviour, who you gonna pick if not Israel?
Iraq?
I thought they were supposed to be our ally in the region, that bright shining beacon of democracy. After all, they greeted us as liberators, right?
And Bin Laden is a perfect example of Frem's earlier comment about some people just being assholes for the sake of being assholes.
Mike
"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."
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Quote:I'm not talking about BLAME. I'm talking about... WHO HAS THE POWER TO MAKE THIS RIGHT?
You're not trying to stir up trouble on my happy thread are you?
It all comes back plenty of blame for both sides, ages of bad intentions
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.
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Yeah, but OBL is a dead asshole, and therefore of little concern to me - he's been dead since like December 01, but the powers that be wanna keep him in play as just another emmanuel goldstein.
As for the stuff Geeze pointed out - I am well aware that ole Jeffie boy has some of the same issues PN does in regards to the topic, but from a purely historical/evidence standpoint, the folks who wound up running the state of israel did indeed do that shit, and never seem to get called on it when they cry howl and whine about someone else doing it to them.
And I wouldn't really reccommend Egypt as peacemaker given that they've been on the recieving end of a few too many israeli excesses themselves to be exactly rational about it - and while arguably a more interested party since a stable middle east is of value to them, nobody trusts the russians either, or us, both of which have a lot to do with afghanistan, although not limited to that.
It's a real hassle finding an honest broker when everyones hands are so dirty, and the UN is both fairly corrupt and near powerless - were that not the case, or if that could be mitigated, I'd reccomend sending in a UN force with a far more active ROE and a BIG stick of troops backed up by hague observers at platoon level and as many independant media as I could convince to go there.
But again, that'd cost money and resources that nobody seems willing to invest in the regions stability - but seem all too eager to invest in it's destabilisation because they've crapped on everyone around so long they're scared that if they ever do get their shit together they might be considering payback.
Kind of a stupid thought, that is, since it evidences a total lack of understanding about the territorial nature of the cultures involved - they'll chase you off their land with fire and fury, sure... but ain't too keen on the idea of anything past that cause it leaves their own land undefended and isn't worth the trouble, that mindset hearkens back to a certain tribalism within their roots, and not understanding this is a big part of why peace efforts by outsiders in the middle east so often fail.
Most brawls over there come down to the simple concept of "get off MY land" - which given israels continous border expansion pushing the palestinians into a smaller and smaller area, is pissing *everyone* over there off, remove everything else, and that right there is the very root of the problem.
Every foot of palestinian land taken by force is an outright act of war, whether we acknowledge this or not, and regardless of all else, this will NOT stop until the land grabbing does, period.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
The only problem is trying to read through all the stuff Gino posts.
ya, that's the sort of time bomb i meant, no offense Gino, it's not you specifically, these threads are full of long posts. We're all spending an awful lot of time nitpicking a war we have no power over and understand pretty well.
Oh, for the hoffer thread. I might create it. It will get it's own little logo to indicate that all posts <200 words, or otherwise ignored until edited. :)
Oh, and check out that avatar magic:
They used to be interchangeable, but now Mike is clearly a sniper kitten with a starfish, and Frem is a vengeful anime hottie. :)
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Just to insert a tiny bit of levity into this heated debate...
One of the gun websites I was on had a thread about the Romak PSL "sniper" rifle, and someone mentioned that Hamas snipers are using the Romanian-built PSL - to which the first reply was, "Funny - Israeli snipers are using F-16s with smart bombs."
It's so... wrong. But still I had a chortle.
But it kinda points up what Signy's talking about - one side has all the REAL weapons, and seems much more interested in using those than in utilizing any kind of diplomacy. Both sides apparently agree with Carl von Clausewitz, author of On War, in which he stated that "war is the continuation of state policy by other means."
Mike
"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."
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