Hey, we want to be part of the hate!

POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 02:14
VIEWED: 18566
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DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:45 PM

Ah, the infamous one lives.

13, I disagree. They are xenophobic and loud, but I think they are a minority. I think that when they post much, they cause the majority to be silent, or leave the site. Then I suppose, they become the majority, at least of posts.

I'm not slow, the post density changes. Several people commented, ebb and flow.

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
If the free-hate-for-all thread is not the place for discussion, I apologize (I mean it!) but I'm just a little curious, as I was born in a socialist system and while it had FLAWS(OMG, flaws!) mass murder and child labour camps were notably absent.
It always is notably absent. No one advertises mass murder and child labor camps.

Yes, but it's still a lazy assumption to make that all socialist states must exhibit the worst characteristics of totalitarian regimes.

Eastern Germany wasn't squeaky clean by far but if there had been child labor camps or secret mass murder, the evidence would have come up after it was dismantled.

And if no one advertizes them, how can you even suspect that democracies left and right aren't running child labor camps and committing mass murder? These things are no more inherent in socialism than they are in democracies. They are symptoms of oppressive totalitarian regimes in general.

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Accountability free zone, but I think you guys have the gist.

Yeah, there was some tongue in cheek there, but I was refering to socialist regimes, not parties or people. Of course, the deaths would be from National Socialists, Soviet Socialists, and Maoist Socialists, Baathist Socialists, all state-socialists.

I'll argue that it's still less a symptom of socialism than it is of oppressive, totalitarian regimes in generally trying to achieve or stay in power. Historically, many (most?) but not all socialist systems have started as or turned into such regimes, often because they were created out of extreme circumstances to begin with, which tends to favor the radical.

Almost any system to rise out of extreme circumstances is likely going to be imperfect or oppressive itself. Fascism, socialism, absolute monarchy, sham democracies, what have you.

And no, I am not a socialist.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
And if no one advertizes them, how can you even suspect that democracies left and right aren't running child labor camps and committing mass murder? These things are no more inherent in socialism than they are in democracies. They are symptoms of oppressive totalitarian regimes in general.

Well that’s always a concern, you’re right.

I do think, however, that socialist economies are more likely to be totalitarian, then capitalist economies, for the simple fact that socialism is often used as an excuse for totalitarianism. The government controlling the means of productions puts a lot of power in the hands of the government.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Finn. I was in a bar with a date, a girl who liked to drink, so we went in, and some guy shoved his hand up her skirt. That ended in a bar fight. I lost, because the guy was about 7", but then he lost, because the bouncers came and did a number on him. I think the guy was just a democrat, not a socialist :)

I had a problem like that one night. I have a friend that is a fan of the fruit of the vine, and she’s also a professional dancer so when she gets plastered she puts on an enticing show for all the guys in the bar. One night a similarly drunk guy started harassing her after she danced with him to that point that I had to say something. Which he promptly ignored, so I had to get in his face. H e was a lot bigger then me, I’m sure he could have pounded me, but my strategy was to just pick up this girl and leave so I wasn’t really worried about a fight. However, one of his buddies, whom I had seen on post before, whispered something to the drunken dude which made him apologies and leave. So that was the end of that.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

RUE

Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:33 PM

Not too many 'socialists' in this band of US-associated dictators ----

Amin, Idi
Uganda

Banzer, Colonel Hugo
Bolivia

Batista, Fulgencio
Cuba

Botha, P.W.
South Africa

Cedras, Raoul
Haiti

Cerezo, Vinicio
Guatemala

Diem, Ngo Dihn
Vietnam

Doe, General Samuel
Liberia

Duvalier, Francois
Haiti

Duvalier, Jean Claude
Haiti

Fahd bin'Abdul-'Aziz, King
Saudi Arabia

Hassan II
Morocco

Marcos, Ferdinand
Philippines

Martinez, General Maximiliano Hernandez
El Salvador

Mobutu Sese Seko
Zaire

Noriega, General Manuel
Panama

Pahlevi, Shah Mohammed Reza
Iran

Papadopoulos, George
Greece

Park Chung Hee
South Korea

Pinochet, General Augusto
Chile

Pol Pot
Cambodia

Somoza, Anastasio Jr.
Nicaragua

Somoza, Anastasio, Sr.
Nicaragua

Smith, Ian
Rhodesia

Suharto, General
Indonesia

Trujillo, Rafael Leonidas
Dominican Republic

Videla, General Jorge Rafael
Argentina

Zia Ul-Haq, Mohammed
Pakistan

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:39 PM

And to flood this thread some more..

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

But I just wanted to say that there was unfocused hate which could all be deposited in a single thread.

I get really aggravated with absolute statements or language.

"Evil", for example. It's a lazy concept because it prevents people from using their brain to actually engage with something.

Or the wholesale dismissal of another culture, another system, other life choices, without a hint of compassionate curiosity.

Slurs.

Anything, really that attempts to draw a thick line between people, defining one group as good and one as "other" and bad, as we we aren't each of us mere circumstances away from that "other".

It is such an arrogant, lazy, cowardly position to take, and it always pisses me off.

Venting prejudice and hate is fun!

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

I do think, however, that socialist economies are more likely to be totalitarian, then capitalist economies, for the simple fact that socialism is often used as an excuse for totalitarianism. The government controlling the means of productions puts a lot of power in the hands of the government.

I figure they have that tendency because socialism almost always arises from some kind of extreme situation where perhaps oppression was already a factor. It radicalizes people and in such an environment the most radical and most power-hungry rise to the top and the confused masses follow, out of idealism or fear. Radical, power-hungry people in power.. pretty much the recipe for totalitarianism, right?

There is a definite historical correlation there, but not a causation in that the system of socialism itself would inevitably create oppression and mass murder.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I figure they have that tendency because socialism almost always arises from some kind of extreme situation where perhaps oppression was already a factor. It radicalizes people and in such an environment the most radical and most power-hungry rise to the top and the confused masses follow, out of idealism or fear. Radical, power-hungry people in power.. pretty much the recipe for totalitarianism, right?

There is a definite historical correlation there, but not a causation in that the system of socialism itself would inevitably create oppression and mass murder.

I’m not confident that there’s not a causation. If you put the economy squarely in the hands of the government then you run an increased risk of totalitarianism.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:06 AM

Quote:
River6213 started to feel something in her legs and arms; she could actually move them a bit. “Great, I’m not paralyzed” River6213 thinks. The sound of the helicopter overhead was pretty loud and getting louder, but through it she thought she could hear other voices speaking. River6213 was feeling rather panicked at this point. “ShadowFLY can’t be too far away” she mutters to herself. “I’ve got to get out of here” she thinks. River6213 starts the nasty business of dragging herself out from under the wreck that used to be a very nice Jaguar. She pulls herself from underneath the vehicle just in time to see two figures standing across from each other regarding each other. There is nothing but silence until the figure closes to her says “State your Business.” River 6213 doesn’t recognize the nearest figure standing there, but she right away knows who the other figure is. “Oh shit!” River6213 says out loud as her gaze falls onto the duffel carrying figure of Shadowfly.

River, real River, who has come out of the shadows.

There's no shame in being who you are, and I'm sorry if I offended your alter egos. If you've been reading this board for the past four years you know that I was institutionalized for 3 years. I didn't mean any offense.

As you came out of the shadows when you name was mentioned, considering sockpuppet theory. I was slow, yes, I saw this happen before. True, it's possible to provoke people by assuming IDs and ranting at them, and people are, sure, basically sheep. But people are just animals. They react to what they see. Throw a pie in their face, they'll throw one back. Give them a pie for dessert, they'll give you one back.

I'm sure if you were listening all along, you know that I have had some pretty priceless wars with a number of people, and Citizen most of all, though not in a long time.

I'm somewhat flattered that you came out of the shadows to comment to my post. As far as being fruity as a nut, I think it's safe to say there's a lot of that around here, and I think John knows that he takes the cake on this one.

Just wanted to ask if you're feeling okay. If you follow the threads on neurology, you know me and Kathy both know a lot about this, and have some pretty different ideas about this.

You also know one of my sisters has chronic depression as a result of mercury poisoning (assuming you read all of these) and I'm helping her currently get off of psychiatric medicine.

I agree, doctors can't fix people, they usually make them worse. For what it's worth, I liked the Fruity Obama bar and the Patsy Cline song, which I've had on mp3 for many years, for the same reason.

Now, all of that said, if River Tam were here in my room, I wouldn't cure her, even if I could. I'm not sure that I should have cured myself. But I've lost a lot of friends to depression in the past, and taking the steps is not the same as knowing which steps to take. It is always better to know, than not to know.

To become crazy, from normal. That's a trickier game. I was certifiable and certified, when I encountered Firefly. I sympathized with River a lot. There's certainly a power in a different state of mind, and I'm not in complete agreement with the popular social view that one state of mind is right, and any other wrong.

As for the stuff I post on this board, it's usually targeted to try to bring some sort of accord between multiple members. I've been here for a long time, got here just ten days before you. I've seen a lot of things, you've seen them too. I watched the whole Kaneman thing, and the ShadowFly too, hence the choice of quote above.

As for the bias, it goes up and down too, In the beginning, the anti-muslim feeling was pretty small. Only a couple of people who thought reaver=muslim. As for the anti-semitism, I think my first post on this board was a long rant against Pirate News for his stance on jews. But all of this does cause a number of people to stay silent on an increasing number of threads, several people have told me so. Hence the hate threads (these focused thr

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