CNN: Israel tries to assassinate Cynthia McKinney
POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Sunday, March 8, 2026 16:48
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Finn, happy birthday.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:Quote:
JEWELSTAITEFAN
Because they are Muslim, and we are not. Muslims have been told they are the chosen children of God, yet they can see they are a century or more behind us - so it must be due to cheating by us as well as the Jews. Except Russia and France. France lost it's spine between WWI and WWII, and Russia is ticked that after Reagan gave them a chance at freedom, Clinton let them down and ignored them, allowing their current government situation to arise.
Oh, where does one even start. Muslims are apparently a single small child with only one opinion, which is to hate. But I'd rather go over to
"France had a spine?" I missed this part of history.
Next, So, Russia only became antagonistic to the US after Glasnost? (Reagan wasn't president when the Berlin wall came down.) So I guess that whole cold war thing was just because they were too cold to go to war.
Oh why bother.
I'm trying to recall if I've ever seen you make a point. Ever. I wonder if you are capable.
JFK was not present when Neil Armstrong set foot on the Moon. I guess that means he had nothing to do with it. RMN was not Presidient when Ford pardoned him, so I guess he had nothing to do with it. FDR was not President when WWII ended, so I guess he had no part in the result. Lincoln was not alive when Negros were given the right to vote, so I guess he had no part in it. I find it hard to believe anybody could really be so clueless as your statement indicates, but review of your past posts supports such a conclusion.
Just because a portion of a religion's followers justify extremist measures and justifications, does not mean the entire planet's followers of that religion all succumb to the same faulty logic. Not only did I not say such a thing, you should realize what a fool you sound like by trying to imply somebody did say such a thing.
Oh why bother.
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Your comment about the jaded perceptions of the Muslim world is an astute one. The Muslim world was completely demoralized by the Arab-Israeli wars. For a long time, the Muslim world was advancing into the modern age – they were actually giving up tradition Islamic fundamentalism. They were developing modern socio-political philosophies and most of them were moving towards a modern socialist economy. Then they started invading Israel. First in 1948, which lead to 1956 and 1967 and 1973, with several smaller conflicts interspersing. The end result of all of those wars was the same. Despite being vastly outnumbered and outgunned, Israel not only defeated the Arab states, but often gained territory. And 1967 was the real kick in the ass for the Arab states. When Israel preempted an Egyptian invasion by simultaneously attacking Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq and completely destroying their military capacity in less then six days (Egyptian military might alone far exceeded Israel). The loss of all these wars ruined Arab moral and nationality to such an extent that they shifted policies away from a national emphasis and towards a fundamental religious and insurgent philosophy. This had the effect of breeding widespread contempt and decay in the Arab nations, and in some cases setting them socially back centuries.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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JTF,
1. I gave reagan credit, that's why i said glasnost.
2.
Quote:
Because they are Muslim, and we are not. Muslims have been told they are the chosen children of God, yet they can see they are a century or more behind us - so it must be due to cheating by us as well as the Jews.
That does sound like an assault on if not all muslim people, all muslim nations.
Reality Check: They don't hate us. Some muslims are increasingly irritated at Israel and at the US for a few simple reasons
1. Incursions into Palestine
2. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
3. Support for very unpopular regimes in Egypt and Saudi Arabia
4. Threats of more war with Syria, Iran and Pakistan.
Just try on someone else's shoes. If the situation were reversed, it might look like this:
Say there was a United Muslim State called the UMS. Then, suppose that UMS openly supported Chavez and Chavez was gobbling up islands in the carribean, such as USVI and Puerto Rico. Then suppose the UMS was occupying California, and had levelled Fresno to the ground. Then suppose they were part of a joint mission to enact Regime Change in Virginia, because they believed that a rogue international agency which they had labelled terrorist, and which had bombed some muslims was there (any military paramilitary group in Arlington, take your pick.)
I am by no means defending the hypothetical UMS, or their counterparts, just creating an analagous reverse situation: THIS IS HOW THEY SEE IT.
Okay, if this were the situation, how would you react? You would probably think that UMS was a menace, and you would probably think that UMS needed some regime change. You would also be very angry at Chavez, esp. if you happen to be a Puerto Rican. Say you live in San Juan, now imagine your what your attitude towards this situation might be?
Right then. Either you can't see things from someone else's perspective, or you do not care whether or not your argument makes sense.
I look at the whole world objectively. I think that almost everyone is behaving in a completely rational manner. There are some very obvious exceptions in the real world:
1. The US, China and Russia are behaving in an expansionist manner. This is pretty typical empire behavior.
2. Israel and North Korea are behaving in a hostile way towards their neighbors, and both for the reason: They have the unconditional backing of a superpower.
3. Chavez is behaving badly in general, this is because like Kim Jong Il, he is insane.
4. Bashir and the Govt. of the Sudan are behaving badly. Mugabe is as well. The coup in Myanmar is not acting well, and there's trouble in Thailand. Otherwise, most of the world is behaving in a predictable manner, in their own self interests.
IMHO, the above mentioned exceptions are acting in a way which is ultimately counter to their self interests.
I sympathize with Gaza not because I like Hamas, or am pro-Islam or anti-Jewish, but because they are in an unenviable position. Israel repeatedly refuses a ceasefire, and Egypt has close the border. This means they will probably be conquered. Given their own nature, they're probably going to fight to the end, and then die.
I sympathize with Iran because I think not only are they under constant threat, but they are doing a really good job of avoiding direct conflict. That, too, is out of self interest, but it's respectable.
The countries that have the most of my sympathies at the moment are the Ukraine and S. Korea, because they have essentially been minding their own business, when suddenly a superpower decided to attack. I am not going to say that Iran and Palestine were only minding their own business, they were meddling, but who wasn't?
I would also say that Taiwan was minding its own business, now it is meddling with China a lot, and I think it will win. They still have my sympathies, because the Chinese Communists have none of my sympathies. The Chinese people have my sympathy, but I think that for them to lose their communist govt. would be a good thing, so hopefully it will be bloodless.
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Finn
I agree, but I would add a qualifier:
The arab world is preoccupied with it. It doesn't seem to be dragging down Iran, Pakistan (Nothing could drag down Afghanistan, it's already in last place, but it's not that worried about Israel) or indonesia, to say nothing of all of the former soviet muslim central asian republics that don't seem to care. Arabs care. From Libya to our allies on the penninsula.
This may indicate that this is more of a race issue than a religious one. If it were religious, I think I would have heard from Brunei.
Small note: Why is this such an issue over here? I mean, we have a larger muslim population than jewish population. It seems the only logical reason is the advantage of Israel as a strategic beachhead. But as such, wouldn't it be better as a smaller more stable state? It was of no use to us in the current conflct. This is a change. In the Gulf war, Israel was an effective ally. Now it is now. This may be because it's now involved in what we should really term a civil war, since we don't recognize palestine, and the arabs should view it the same way, since they don't recognize Israel. A nation in a state of civil war is not a lot of use as an ally.
Militarily, we should carrot and stick Israel into stability.
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Iran and Pakistan aren’t Arab, and neither were directly involved in the Arab-Israeli conflict. Most Muslim nations side with the Arab nations on this issue for political, national and religious solidarity, but you’re right, they aren’t necessarily preoccupied with it.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Finn - thanks much for helping out by filling in many of the details. I did not have them handy, and could not rely solely upon memory to get them straight, but I did want to provide a concise and hopefully perceptive answer to what seemed an honest question. I've assuming your above post was directed at me.
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
JTF,
1. I gave reagan credit, that's why i said glasnost.
2.Quote:
Because they are Muslim, and we are not. Muslims have been told they are the chosen children of God, yet they can see they are a century or more behind us - so it must be due to cheating by us as well as the Jews.
That does sound like an assault on if not all muslim people, all muslim nations.
Reality Check: They don't hate us. Some muslims are increasingly irritated at Israel and at the US for a few simple reasons
1. Incursions into Palestine
2. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
3. Support for very unpopular regimes in Egypt and Saudi Arabia
4. Threats of more war with Syria, Iran and Pakistan.
blah blah blah blah i'm not listening to any reason blah blah blah lalalalalala blah blah blah i'm ignoring all reasonable discussion blah blah blah blah.
1. The US, China and Russia are behaving in an expansionist manner. This is pretty typical empire behavior.
Of course Reagan had no effect on the Berlin wall coming down, which is why you clearly and pointedly failed to give him credit where due. Because we all remember LBJ and RMN and GF and Jiminy Carter standing before the Wall and declaring TEAR DOWN THIS WALL. Apparently you are the only person who does not realize the Berlin wall was effectively bookended by Kennedy's "I am a jelly donut" and Reagan's quote. My point remains valid and you have failed to counterpoint.
You have gione to the extra trouble of intentionally pulling my Muslim resonse out of context. By quoting my reply in your post, you had to intentionally removed the contextual quote my answer was responding to. Perhaps you can not read effectively and did not understand the discussion, but your failure to include directly contextual material and selectively choose material you want to object to invalidates your attempts at counterpoint.
To find the specific post I made, one can easily find that it was in direct response to a question directly responding to aqnother quote clearly specifying particular Countries or Nations.
If you are really delusional enough to think that those 6 specific countries represent the entirety of the world's Muslim population, then there is likely no point in entering debate with you. If you are not that delusional, then you have intentionally tried to imply that I was claiming that those 6 specific countries represented the entirety of the World's Muslim population, making your intellectual dishonesty invalidate any of your failed attempts to counterpoint.
Although I clearly consider Finn Mac to have better comprehension than you, I think it obvious that if he was capable of understanding my informational reply, then any other reasonable person should have been able to do the same - you have shown repeatedly that this category does not include you.
The same applies to your attempts to imply that I said these 6 specific countries represent ALL Muslim Nations. Both times you have failed to counterpoint.
Of course you must also be sooo correct that denizens of those specific 6 countries hate the United States since at least the 1950's, 60's, 70's, and 80's because of all the incursions we made into Iraq and Afghanistan during those decades, eh? You have utterly failed to counterpoint.
If you are tryng to claim the residents of Afghanistan attacked the United States on 9/11 because of our future retaliation in following years, you'll make it clear the only response you desire is laughter at your ridiculous lack of logic. Almost as hilarious as your attempts to justify Arab "irritation" that the Jews do not just lie down and succumb to the Palestinian bombings of any Israeli target they can chuck
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Nope, that would be where muslims live. It helps when there's an internationally recognized boundary, and a govt. in this case, a democratically elected one.
They elected Hamas and Hamas has a policy of destroying Isreal. Guess the folks got the change they wanted.
Isreal didn't start this latest conflict by suddenly claiming new territory. It started because the "ceasefire" in the region was being defined as Isreal stops shooting and Hamas keeps shooting. That went on for some time with everybody saying to Isreal "don't fight back...there's a ceasefire" and Isreal finally said "this aint right" and started shooting per the Reynolds Doctrine (ie 'if somebody tries to kill you then you got a right to try and kill them right back').
Even some of the arab press is spit this time.
H
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JTF
not worth the time to respond.
HERO
Quote:
They elected Hamas and Hamas has a policy of destroying Isreal. Guess the folks got the change they wanted.
Sad but true. Of course, Israel elected a govt. that wanted to destroy Palestine. In any conflict, if we help one side, someone else will help the other. Ain't the way it oughta be.
We elected a govt. that if it didn't want to destroy Iraq, is doing a job of it. Now I'm afraid we've elected one up for destroying Pakistan.
See why I'm not a big fan of Govt?
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It’s always the same story with you, Dreamtrove. Everytime a situation arises in Israel, it’s almost always, Hamas or Hezbollah or Fatah violating a ceasefire to kill Jews, and everytime, you insist it’s all Israeli fault who are killing the peaceful and innocent Palestinian terrorists. Basically, your position is it’s okay for Palestinians to kill Jews, but the Jews are wrong if they defend themselves, which means you want to see Jews killed. That’s the only logical way to explain the bias in your argument.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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