revolution firefly
POSTED BY: RedRiver
UPDATED: Saturday, December 20, 2008 06:54
VIEWED: 9986
PAGE 5 of 5
Apology accepted and I do realise that, without reading the above again, that I should apologies for the forcefulness that I have shown. So, you have mine as well.
But, I'll point out, that this isn't about whether you can technically accomplish what you are trying to do. The base technology is there, as I have stated prior. The problem comes in the time frame. I don't think that you realise how slow things will move forward when working on a project like this. A good example is Vega Strike. That project was formed 2001, and they still aren't done. And they are "just" a single player game. I also have experienced this personally. I would urge you to go to sourceforge.net and type 'mmorpg' in the search. Then look at what stage of development they are in now v.s. when they registered the project. Please note, that usually the project has undergone some development before registering.
If you go ahead, then you are looking at 10+ years to get anything done. Not to mention that it will be a staggering accomplishment if the project is still running after a fraction of that time. As in, getting people to commit to giving up there free time to a project, having that commitment continuous and organising it all, is like trying to heard cats. Again, I know from personal experience.
But, all that assumes that the legal aspect has been taken care of. This just isn't the case as you have admitted. I'll also point out that projects like yours typically won't be hit with a C&D letter until you at least show progress. It just isn't cost effective to spend thousands (more actually... much more) going after every project that will most likely die out on its own. That isn't to be offensive, that's just the way these things tend to work.
So, if you show progress, then you will be hit with a C&D letter. This isn't even questionable as you are encroaching on a license that has been given out and as such, will be competing with that license... illegally.
I understand that a lot of people aren't going to see what CK, myself, and others are saying. But, that isn't because we are wrong. It's because they are so desperate to see a project, any project, under way, that they are blinded by that. They think that this can and will be done. But, that is only a half-truth, not the reality of the situation.
If you want to take the risk, then that is your choice. If people want to donate there time to help you, then that is there choice. But, with that license given out, this project will end one way or another.
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I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Do you happen to know who would have final say in a legal dispute, would it be Fox, Universal, Multiverse, would Joss even be involved? I have read that the original copy right holder would have jurisdiction, so would that be joss? or the people who own the rights, specifically to the game?
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I have two words for you. Flash Games. The newest line of casual gaming on the net. You've all played them at one time I'm sure. Something to while away the time during a coffee break (or when your really bored at work) No huge project that needs a large team of developers, no huge amounts of money, and if you have the warewithal for programming you can put something out in only months (there have been contests for new gamers out there to develop a new game where the time frame was a matter of weeks).
And with Flash Games there are so many genre's, to Escape the Room games (my personal favorite, though they can be frustrating) to Shooter games (imagine a different Firefly class ship that's ARMED and needing to escape a harrowing situation) Puzzle Games (the subjects name is River Tam, we're testing her memory) Fighting Games, Tower Defense games...... my GOD the choices are endless. And it would be a one shot thing (that is to say one game one mission, not like a mmog) that it can be set up and made much easier (especially if it's replayable). Imagine a game where you have to fix Serenity and you have to go room by room getting clues and objects to help you with your goal (that's in the vein of Escape the Room games) Course knowing the legal ramifications maybe base it on another ship, hell even another class of design.
My point is if ANY of us are ever going to play any game relating to the Verse that doesn't involve all the mess that a mmog brings up this would be it. Keeping the legality in mind the safest bet would be to create your own characters and story but keep it in the Verse. Like they're doing for the fan films "Into the Black" and "Bellflower". I don't know what goes into the making of a mmog, but from what I've read it's too huge an undertaking. But Flash Games, that's doable. So if this doesn't work, don't fret, don't get down, don't feel beaten, instead focus that energy into this alternative. I know I'D play a Firefly Flash Game. Hell it'd occupy my time (as these games tend to do) I'd like to know your thoughts on this.
This, btw, is my most favorite site for Casual Gaming. While your there try a few of the games, they have something for everyone. I recommend the game Bloons (I dare you to play that game without smiling, and conversly tearing your hair out).
http://jayisgames.com/
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Quote:
Originally posted by RevolutionFirefly:
Do you happen to know who would have final say in a legal dispute, would it be Fox, Universal, Multiverse, would Joss even be involved? I have read that the original copy right holder would have jurisdiction, so would that be joss? or the people who own the rights, specifically to the game?
Fox currently owns the IP. Basically, what happens is that a creator, e.g. Joss, has an idea, he sells that idea to a studio if only in the form of employment and development of said idea. So, Fox is the one to talk to. That being said, Universal also holds certain rights as well. Which is why these waters are so very muddied. So, you'll have to strike a deal with them as well. As CK has stated above, legal arguments between the two is the likely reason why the official MMOG got put on hiatus. It's also the reason why any project that might compete with there MMOG stands more than just a chance of getting killed.
Multiverse and Joss have zero say in these matters. Unfortunately, right now, the courts are that ones that will most likely have the final say in this matter.
I'll also point out that I did try to get Fox's contact info out of Multiverse a little while ago. This was the response:
http://update.multiverse.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5340&start=0&theme=
multiverse&sid=f4fa9f2d760157228f4bf2b28fa97045
"""
...snip...
Unfortunately, I am not in a position to provide contact info for anyone at Fox.
...snip...
"""
I also tried to look for the contact information on-line and had very little luck. It seems as though you have to be an insider to know these things. So, if that contact information is out there, it's not exactly easy to find.
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I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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I agree with Sigma, the rights belong to Universal and Fox, not Multiverse (who licensed out the rights to make a *Firefly*, not Serenity, MMO from Fox, but that is now in dispute from what I've heard), and not Joss unfortunately. Joss doesn't even have right of first refusal on this, as he likely has on any additional sequels in film or comic books, and which he has said specifically, I believe, he has when it comes to novels. But he would have had to negotiate for those rights with Fox originally, when he pitched the idea for the show to them, and likely again with Universal when they bought the rights from Fox. (This is why Joss was never even consulted on the Multiverse project.)
What it sounds like to me from the small bits I've picked up is that there's a dispute between Fox's laywers and Universal's lawyers as to which of the two of them actually have the rights to make an MMOG based on the property -- did Fox retain that right as an extension of the show when they sold the movie rights to Universal, or does Universal have the rights because they did the movie? I haven't heard anything in awhile, but I also haven't seen any announcements publically from anyone, so my guess is that this is an extremely muddy area between the two of them. And because of that, they're that much more likely to be very aggressive when it comes to defending their licenses against fan projects. If it even appears to a judge or mediator that they haven't adequately defended their license, they could lose the MMOG rights entirely.
~CK
You can't take the sky from me...
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaliforniaKaylee:
I agree with Sigma, the rights belong to Universal and Fox, not Multiverse (who licensed out the rights to make a *Firefly*, not Serenity, MMO from Fox, but that is now in dispute from what I've heard), and not Joss unfortunately. Joss doesn't even have right of first refusal on this, as he likely has on any additional sequels in film or comic books, and which he has said specifically, I believe, he has when it comes to novels. But he would have had to negotiate for those rights with Fox originally, when he pitched the idea for the show to them, and likely again with Universal when they bought the rights from Fox. (This is why Joss was never even consulted on the Multiverse project.)
What it sounds like to me from the small bits I've picked up is that there's a dispute between Fox's laywers and Universal's lawyers as to which of the two of them actually have the rights to make an MMOG based on the property -- did Fox retain that right as an extension of the show when they sold the movie rights to Universal, or does Universal have the rights because they did the movie? I haven't heard anything in awhile, but I also haven't seen any announcements publically from anyone, so my guess is that this is an extremely muddy area between the two of them. And because of that, they're that much more likely to be very aggressive when it comes to defending their licenses against fan projects. If it even appears to a judge or mediator that they haven't adequately defended their license, they could lose the MMOG rights entirely.
~CK
You can't take the sky from me...
Interesting, Thank you, I would like to apologize to you aswell again, because I took everything the wrong way, when you where actually trying to help.
As for the legal conundrum, if they do not know who has the rights to the license then who would be taking legal action against a fan project? Further more what would happen if they did lose thier right to make the MMOG, where would that place Multiverse?
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Quote:
Originally posted by RevolutionFirefly:
As for the legal conundrum, if they do not know who has the rights to the license then who would be taking legal action against a fan project?
Either of them, both of them. Hell, Multiverse may even been able to as they could make a claim that they are defending a license that they have obtained. But, when it comes to the IP itself, both Fox and Universal have some claim to the FF/S 'Verse. So, either/both of them could legitimately send a C&D letter. The veracity of that letter might go away at some point in the future depending on how things work out legally between the two though. But, that's how it would likely be today. Any way you look at it, they both have some claim to the 'Verse in general. It's just a question as to how far that claim goes. Something in which is TBA.
Quote:
Originally posted by RevolutionFirefly:
Further more what would happen if they did lose thier right to make the MMOG, where would that place Multiverse?
Interesting question. Pure conjecture, but I imagine the license would become invalid; it wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on as it wasn't legitimately given in the first place. However, it would also likely mean that there isn't anyone to gain permission from to make the game. So, they could probably just make it. That being said, there would likely be some sort of compensation necessary as it still isn't Multiverse's IP. Maybe something like royalties in the music industry. But, again, that's speculation. I imagine CK would be better able to answer that question.
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I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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