revolution firefly
POSTED BY: RedRiver
UPDATED: Saturday, December 20, 2008 06:54
VIEWED: 9986
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just givin' yall heads up... there's a new FF MMO in the works over @ http://revolutionfirefly.webs.com/
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A fan made MMOG isn't a reasonable goal. At least, not if it is expected to look like what is currently out there, even if it doesn't play the same. The servers are going to cost dearly and that cost isn't recoverable. As in, if any money exchanges hands, regardless of profit, Fox will be all over it and that cost is more than enough to be out of reach.
We also have to keep in mind that MMOGs are in development by professional teams for years before they become playable. This would be a small group of non-professionals working in there free time.
Any fan made modern MMOG is just intractable.
I had an idea of how to make one that would be tractable, but... let's just say it's "old school" enough that I highly doubt people would play it.
That's really the problem. It's either the game is too ambitious, and/or the game has/gets too little support, and/or the game would be appreciated by too few. There always seems to be a catch of some kind.
----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
A fan made MMOG isn't a reasonable goal. At least, not if it is expected to look like what is currently out there, even if it doesn't play the same. The servers are going to cost dearly and that cost isn't recoverable. As in, if any money exchanges hands, regardless of profit, Fox will be all over it and that cost is more than enough to be out of reach.
We also have to keep in mind that MMOGs are in development by professional teams for years before they become playable. This would be a small group of non-professionals working in there free time.
Any fan made modern MMOG is just intractable.
I had an idea of how to make one that would be tractable, but... let's just say it's "old school" enough that I highly doubt people would play it.
That's really the problem. It's either the game is too ambitious, and/or the game has/gets too little support, and/or the game would be appreciated by too few. There always seems to be a catch of some kind.
----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
This is the kind of additude that leads to the failure of independent games. Apathy will kill us.
We will try everything in our power to get this game made, and I promise you it will be done in a way that makes it as true to the firefly experience as can be done. I plan on doing the impossible, and with my team I am pretty damn sure I stand a chance.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RevolutionFirefly:
This is the kind of additude that leads to the failure of independent games. Apathy will kill us.
Actually, overly ambitious goals kills games before they are even started. And that's true even if the team doesn't know it. Regardless of whether a "company" is independent or not, the only ones that actually produce a product is those which know what resources they have, and just as importantly, don't have. Then after knowing that, they commit to project(s) within those limitations.
Single player games take a couple years to develop when it comes from a professional team. MMOGs take years longer because of the inherent higher level of complexity, plus the need to have a long and continuing story line.
So, that's what, say 4/5 years for a professional team to make a MMOG? Dozens of people full time as well? How many people you got? Working in there free time?
That's not apathy, it's reality.
Quote:
Originally posted by RevolutionFirefly:
I plan on doing the impossible, and with my team I am pretty damn sure I stand a chance.
With the number of people that you have, I'd reassess your position. But, even if you get a fair number of people, you're going to have to consider how much time they will actually work on the project. Because, even if you get 50 people to work on it, if they can only produce about 1 hr every 2 weeks or so (each) on average, then they aren't really producing much.
But, I'll also point out (and this has been said by others numerous times as well), that this community has that "do the impossible" nonsense in there head way too much. Yah, it's a fun(ny) catch phrase from the series. Yah, it gives us the idea that we can do things that we didn't necessarily think that we could. But, when the numbers are run, and there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that what is being considered is possible, it's time to reassess the project. As in, every-thing/one has limits. Ignoring them is inviting failure.
In other words, it isn't about ambition, nor is it about having a cool idea. It's about the ability to do it, moreover, within a reasonable time frame. And a fan made modern MMOG just isn't in the cards.
Don't get me wrong. Your goal is admirable. But, the way in which you seem to be planning on doing it (the vision statement is quite telling) is like making Murphy a part of your team.
But, if you're going to make a go of this, and have a chance of completing something, you're going to have to make numerous sacrifices to your vision. Because, what you're planning is just way too big.
----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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<_<
If this MMO is being made during free time, being made free for players, and doing so because of a passion about the source material, I'm not about to pass judgment on quality or probability. I'm sure it'll be fun working on it.
The mission statement is ambitious, but it's also something I've been wondering if anyone would ever attempt for a long time. That it's Firefly related is a bonus.
I wonder how it all will be implemented... PvP seems like it could be an important aspect, as players band into crews, compete to steal the same thing. And I imagine a lot of people will want to get ships. The ship could be like a guildhouse in other games, maybe. Then, apart from the planetside combat, how would the game handle random encounters while in transit on the ship like Reavers, NPC Alliance trouble, ship malfunctions, or even PVP boarding parties?
If somehow all that potential were in there, it would be very cool.
Of course, if it's heavy PvP, a permanent kill system could become frustrating, and I'd like to see some sort of way to revive people.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RevolutionFirefly:
We will try everything in our power to get this game made, and I promise you it will be done in a way that makes it as true to the firefly experience as can be done. I plan on doing the impossible, and with my team I am pretty damn sure I stand a chance.
Not to worry...
Some folk , hereabouts , are regular party-poopers and pissers-upon-parades...
Don't be dissuaded from your vision just because someone else doesn't share in it .
Behold , even a turtle only makes progress when he sticks his neck out...
Myself , I'd be pleased even to see a fan-made machinima movie posted to youTube...
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Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Some folk , hereabouts , are regular part-poopers and pissers-upon-parades...
That implies that I don't have a point nor am I right. Neither of which are true. Because, I do have a point, and I am right. Maybe instead of knee-jerking to poo-poo-ing the person who is poo-poo-ing an idea, you should take a moment to consider the issues brought up.
Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:
Behold , even a turtle only makes progress when he sticks his neck out...
Myself , I'd be pleased even to see a fan-made machinima movie posted to youTube...
The problem with this is that no progress will be made when the project dies. I reference countless other projects that have lead to the exact same thing; nothing, no progress. So, although you might be pleased if even some movie got posted somewhere, it takes a completed project to get that movie posted.
Here, the project is so ambitious, it would be appropriate to compare what they are trying to do, with just some Joe/Jane trying to make a feature length film with Hollywood quality, in his/her free time, using his/her own money. Unfortunately, this is infeasible to do. Not even with a small group of them.
As I said prior, dialling the project back to something manageable would more than just make sense. It's necessary for the survival and completion of the project.
----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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Sigma, I apreciate what your saying, but I am not about to scale down a project before any atempt has been made to create it the way it was intended. I am tired of games like WoW dominating the market, and games where there is no focus on real character development, just grinding for hours so you can select a new pre-defined skill. I am trying to change that. I am trying to shatter the mold. I may fail, I realize this, the game may never be made. Being afraid of failure though, that is what in reality causes no progress to be made. The tools and resources are available, so I say why the hell not.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RevolutionFirefly:
just grinding for hours so you can select a new pre-defined skill
How exactly does sitting in a virtual room for a long while that will teach you some predefined skill shatter the mold, exactly? Oh wait, it doesn't. You're going to have a skill tree just like every other game out there. It's just that learning/using it is in a different way. That's not shattering anything. That's just evolving skills in a different direction. In fact, there is a game made by the US military that does a similar thing. So, let's not talk about doing something so very different when that is far from the case.
But, if you want progress, it is already being made. A few examples are Portal, Fl0w, Mirror's Edge, and Echochrome (actually JAPAN Studio has come out with several interesting games lately). In other words, although progress might not be at the pace that you would want, it is happening and is even being done by main stream publishers.
Quote:
Originally posted by RevolutionFirefly:
The tools and resources are available, so I say why the hell not.
It is this that you do not understand. Though the basic tools are available, your resources are *far* from it. You do not have the man power to create this in a reasonable time frame. Your team does not have the skill set necessary to create a MMOG. You do not have the money to purchase the number of servers necessary for a MMOG. You cannot get that money from the community because Fox/Universal will sue you if you do.
You're going to have to realise that this vision of yours is out of line with what you're capable of doing; a modern MMOG is just unrealistic. You're going to have to find another way of doing it, at least, to tone it down. Otherwise, failure.
I don't know how else to explain it other than logic or by example. And I've done both. I've explained that you don't have most of the necessary skills/resources to do this. I've showed you that industry professionals that have millions to dump into such things take about 1/2 a decade to create these things. But, all I get from you is rhetoric.
If you want to live in your own pocket universe fine. Go ahead. Try and fail. But, please have enough respect for this community that you don't get there hopes up for something that isn't going to happen.
----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
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" Someone take 'the perfesser' into the back and plug him into the hyperdrive..."
No , wait...He'd only fry it...
" Shut him up or SHUT HIM DOWN ! "
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