BDM Has More To Offer - Observations
POSTED BY: Shinygoodguy
UPDATED: Thursday, December 11, 2008 00:48
VIEWED: 8157
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This may have been discussed in other threads but here it goes:
I was watching the BDM last night for obscure clues from Joss through his characters as to what we may expect in the BDS and beyond.
I've noticed that Joss tends to give you clues through the character dialogue. For instance when Kaylee says she's gonna live after Simon expresses his love for her. And she does.
Shepperd Book tells Mal to believe in River. This started, at least that I noticed, in OiS when he follows River's plan. But in the BDM he believes that she's a person whole and real, and not just a weapon. River connects and identifies with the Captain thoroughly. Both he and Jayne are perhaps the easiest to read, for different reasons of course.
Thats why she didn't shoot him in the Maidenhead. She knew he wouldn't. But here's something I noticed last night as I watched for the umpteenth time.
River cannot read Simon all the time. In the BDM River says to Simon she couldn't tell if he was going to make her sleep.
I also get the feeling that River's dream sequences did not end at Maidenhead. Somehow I think that Joss had her dream straight through from there until the end. Just a theory based strictly on instinct.
In earnest Mal, Why did you let her back onto the boat?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
This may have been discussed in other threads but here it goes:
I was watching the BDM last night for obscure clues from Joss through his characters as to what we may expect in the BDS and beyond.
I've noticed that Joss tends to give you clues through the character dialogue. For instance when Kaylee says she's gonna live after Simon expresses his love for her. And she does.
Shepperd Book tells Mal to believe in River. This started, at least that I noticed, in OiS when he follows River's plan. But in the BDM he believes that she's a person whole and real, and not just a weapon. River connects and identifies with the Captain thoroughly. Both he and Jayne are perhaps the easiest to read, for different reasons of course.
Thats why she didn't shoot him in the Maidenhead. She knew he wouldn't. But here's something I noticed last night as I watched for the umpteenth time.
River cannot read Simon all the time. In the BDM River says to Simon she couldn't tell if he was going to make her sleep.
I also get the feeling that River's dream sequences did not end at Maidenhead. Somehow I think that Joss had her dream straight through from there until the end. Just a theory based strictly on instinct.
In earnest Mal, Why did you let her back onto the boat?
I don't agree with all of that.
In Maidenhead, why would she aim the gun at Mal if she knew he wouldn't shoot? She didn't KNOW, she only read his mind, and he had not yet decided. Had he decided to shoot, she would have shot first. He also knew she could read his mind, and that he would be dead if he decided to shoot her. Jayne did not intend to kill her, just diable her, and she did not kill Jayne.
River did not have a dream sequence at Maidenhead. She was subliminally triggered to execute commands imbedded in her subconscious, which was a main part of the story line.
Joss clearly stated in commentary that River is clear as soon as she vomits on Miranda, and she repeats "I'm fine" to Simon. Even if she is in a dream to that point, she is in reality after that.
She only cannot read Simon when he is about to execute safe words. As a required portion of her subliminal programming, she would be disabled from reading anybody who was thinking those words/commands - otherwise the programmers never would have been able to speak safewords to a psychic. She read him at all other times, when she wasn't distracted by other problems.
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Interesting observations.
IN the Maidenhead River was surely distracted enough to not be ablke to read Simon's intent. She had just beaten up the whole bar, and the one man she could trust, Mal, was holding a gun on her. She couldn't shoot because she knew he wouldn't.
It is interesting that the one person, Simon, whom she's closest to emotionally, seems to be harder to read. But the one time she cannot read him, without the above mentioned distraction, was when she didn't know if he was going to make her sleep. Only one incident , at least the only one that comes to mind.
That Kaylee says she's gonna live, have to agree with your concept.
Joss does drop clues in his writing. Well, he didn't give a hint about Wash getting harpooned, but with River he does. Perhaps he thinks we believe in the psychic link, that it is the only characterization that allows for prediction.
What are the other hints you have noticed. I just love analysing The Joss in differing lights.
MAL
Or near enough. Am I the only one
thinking along those lines?
BOOK
No.
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"I am a leaf on the wind" was a big fat clue to the end of Wash for me anyway, as soon as he said it the first time I knew he was not long for the world.
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"
FORSAKEN original
Trolls Against McCain
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Mahatma Gandhi
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Same here, but I didn't see Book dying until it happened.
I also just watched "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" after many, many years. It could have also been the "Mal and Zoe Rob Trains and Banks" .
I also noticed that the Trading Post vault scene is almost the same as when Butch and Sundance Kid (one of the best movies ever) are robbing the train and the guard just won't let them in the car with the safe.
http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/
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Quote:When Wash said "Hello?" all alone on the bridge after the barn swallow- that was a hint IMO, and on Miranda after Jayne says the planet's dead for no reason the camera ends on Wash, again alone in the shot. We should have been subliminally prepared for it...*snif*
Originally posted by Freebrowncoat:
Joss does drop clues in his writing. Well, he didn't give a hint about Wash getting harpooned,
The observant Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Freebrowncoat:
Interesting observations.
IN the Maidenhead River was surely distracted enough to not be ablke to read Simon's intent. She had just beaten up the whole bar, and the one man she could trust, Mal, was holding a gun on her. She couldn't shoot because she knew he wouldn't.
It is interesting that the one person, Simon, whom she's closest to emotionally, seems to be harder to read. But the one time she cannot read him, without the above mentioned distraction, was when she didn't know if he was going to make her sleep. Only one incident , at least the only one that comes to mind.
That Kaylee says she's gonna live, have to agree with your concept.
Joss does drop clues in his writing. Well, he didn't give a hint about Wash getting harpooned, but with River he does. Perhaps he thinks we believe in the psychic link, that it is the only characterization that allows for prediction.
What are the other hints you have noticed. I just love analysing The Joss in differing lights.
MAL
Or near enough. Am I the only one
thinking along those lines?
BOOK
No.
As far as Wash's death is concerned, one could say that the clue could have been(if it had been released before the BDM) in Those Left Behind.
WASH: Some of these ships are in better shape than ours, even.
MAL: Have some respect.....you're among the dead.
Mal, of course means it in the immediate sense, what with the dead bodies and such.....but after seeing the BDM, one also already knows that in the movie, Wash will literally be among the dead.
You make some interesting points. THe clues, of course, are thanks to very good foreshadowing skills on Joss and his crew's part.
Mrs. Universe
MR. UNIVERSE----> 
<----MRS. UNIVERSE
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Saw the BDM Thursday night in Raleigh on the big screen. Did anyone notice the cartoon dinos on Mr. Universe's screens?
http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/
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You make a good point about River's actions in the Maidenhead and how she got better on Miranda. I was so busy looking for any sliver of hope that
Wash and Book are not dead.
I did notice that River "gets better" after throwing up when she tells Simon "I'm fine."
What I love about this film is that nothing is as it seems and you need to pay attention to everything to keep pace.
Thanks for the clarification.
Tawabawho?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
You make a good point about River's actions in the Maidenhead and how she got better on Miranda. I was so busy looking for any sliver of hope that
Wash and Book are not dead.
I did notice that River "gets better" after throwing up when she tells Simon "I'm fine."
What I love about this film is that nothing is as it seems and you need to pay attention to everything to keep pace.
Thanks for the clarification.
Tawabawho?
You are welcome. There is more discussion of the Maidenhead scene at this thread:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=33222
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