Official Map of the 'Verse at QMX
POSTED BY: micjwelch
UPDATED: Monday, May 4, 2009 10:17
VIEWED: 22446
PAGE 4 of 5
Quote:Oh! I know, I know!
Originally posted by Platonist:
Can anyone explain this?
Answer: Joss and the artists aren't astrophysicists!
Really... I think it's just meant to look pretty than actually be feasible. ^__^
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sara013
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Platonist wrote:
"Serenity can't go from Lilac (in the Blue Sun System) to Beaumonde (in the Yellow colored system) and back to Haven (in the Blue Sun System) and then be a few hours out from Inara, I'm assuming she is on a moon in the Blue Sun System..."
If you look at the overview map, the "Yellow colored system" of Kalidasa is in an orbit around the White sun system that can take the entire system fairly close to the Blue sun system. While the map shows the Kalidasa system as being on the opposite site of the 'Verse, those systems are in motion, and can come close to one another at some time during their orbits.
Also the scale indicates that all five of these star systems are very close together. If our solar system were where the White Sun system is, Pluto would be almost out to the Georgia system!
And Serenity is a mighty fast ship. It can and has crossed great distances in a matter of hours. Not light speed, just really really fast speed. 
(a.k.a. wydraz)
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Thanks! That explains everything; it is surely the prettiest map of any universe I've ever seen.
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Here's my two bits, plus a desperate request.
Firstly, the astronomy geeks are right: this system is inherently unstable. But for human colonization purposes, 1000 years is a perfectly decent amount of time to inhabit a system whose instability will not be manifested for tens of thousands of years.
Secondly, in regards to terraformation: I've done a fairly extensive amount of research on the subject (I'm a sci fi writer by trade) and the best way to engineer a planet to habitation in such situations is with the use of a soliel, as described in Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars series. A soliel is a permanantly orbiting station placed between the terraformed body and the star, designed to augment, transform or reduce the amount and color of light from the star. For large gas giants, a single soliel, placed properly would theoretically allow the entire system to be terraformed. Sure, there's a lot of "black box" technology involved, but the basic principals are sound: if it's too hot, the soliel cools it down. If it's too cold, the soliel heats it up.
Thirdly, while I love the map, I see lots of spots for additional worlds. There aren't any trojan bodies that I can see, for example, nor any readily-identified "rogue" bodies in semi-stationary orbits, nor any "plutonic" bodies hanging out in the Oort cloud. With the terraforming technology available, all of these would be potential living worlds. Plus on the Miranda map from the movie there seemed to be several small red dwarfs/protostars in far orbit of the White Sun.
With 215 worlds, why do I need more? Purely selfish reasons, I assure you. Before this map came out I poored over the Miranda map and tried to figure it out on my own. While I wasn't too far off base, I also put a butt-load of my fanfic worlds in the picture, for lack of better intel. My problem now is that I won't be getting the map until Christmas, and that kind of messes with a project I'm working on.
I'll go ahead and spill the beans: for the last year or two, I've been hammering my fanfic notes into the (wait for it) Concise History Of The Unification War And Its Immediate Aftermath. No lie. I plot out the settlement of the 'verse, the waves of immigrants and their social/political systems, patterns of belief, etc., take the technological and cultural issues implicit in the 'verse as seen into account, and try to tell a compelling story about the war without directly referencing ANY characters from the show.
Which means that the 250 pages or so I have now are moot, because of this map. Don't get me wrong -- it's shiny as a diamond -- but it's stepping on my creative buzz. I want my fanfic and such to be as canon as possible. So I'll eventually try to re-write it with the new map taken into account.
But until I get the map for X-mas, could someone who has a copy PLEASE let me know which planets and moons are orbiting around WHICH stars? It's kind of important, and while I can glean some of it from the screen shots, I need to know where freakin' Boros is. And Persephone. And other stuff. Anyone willing to do that will get a free copy of my now-obsolete History, and a promise of a bound copy of the revision, once made.
Help a brotha out?
ScrewtheAlliance
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Well, many of your questions will be answered by the "white paper" that should be available online fairly soon. This has a timeline, assumed developments, discoveries and a catalogue of all the bodies on the map. As Andy Gore has said, this is the best, most accurate map we can make with the information currently at hand. It's workable, at least in human timescales.
Note, the map shows *only* the terraformed or terraformable worlds and moons. There is indeed room for trojans, heavy G rocks and other stuff if Joss (or fan writers :-) dreams it up.
Or Joss gets the chance to revisit the Verse and we have to start all over with new info :-)
As to which star....well, it will be discovered in about 2040. Despite best efforts, in the end it had to be a fictional system in Taurus, about 40 LY away.
Hope that helps.
Nick
(The Signal)
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Nick,
I'm still troubled by the 2 deep flaws:
Problem #1. Blue sun's very existance
Problem #2. The lack of nighttime on these worlds.
Problem #1 explained: I'm being honest here, the blue star is not possible. I'm not making this up. Blue stars are gravity monsters, they irriadiate everything around them, and they die quickly. Plants trying to grow under a blue star will be destroyed. People will get cancer and die. If the star is actually smaller, as it seems to appear to be in the picture, then it can't be blue. This is just a plain fact related to the rules that govern stars. Is there a blue sun in the verse strictly because of the Blue Sun Corp? If so, abandon it I say. There can be other interesting corp mottos beyond "Live life with Blue Sun". Perhaps "Blue Sun: Bringing more light to the verse than the other 5" in reference to the new unified government, and we'd know the dark undertones. What I'm saying is I think there is a blue star on this map because of the corporation. If so, I'd be resolved to let it go.
Problem #2 Explained: The way these planets orbit leaves no room for nighttime on any world but the most rim dwelling and only when pointed into the black before they orbit back. There are plenty of "nights" in the series. Red Dwarfs solve this issue but there is only 1 red sun in the system. Red dwarfs are common in the milky way and multiple red dwarfs in the 'verse star system is absoutely plausable. If there was 1 white sun, 1 yellow sun, and 3 red and/or orange stars, nighttime can exist on some worlds at times. (consider the battle of Serenity Valley, on Hera a core world. It was night during the portion of the battle we saw in the pilot episode)
I fear that the answer is simply "Sorry logic mistakes were made, but what's done is done and the maps are printed."
If there is any chance at all to fix the logic flaws, I recommend this:
1. Keep White Sun in the center.
2. Keep 1 yellow star. Make it idenical in illumination and mass to our sun. Place the core alliance worlds there.
3. Change all other suns to 2 red dwarfs and 1 weak orange sun. This will create climates on those planets of weak radiation outputs and promote the hardscrable growth we see on places like Whitefall, Jan Ying, and Higgins Moon. The Orange star will also have a sweet spot around it for a planet like Persophine, a world that seems to be a "border-core", containing both nobles like Warrick Harrow or Atherton Wing along side rifraf like Badger and others seen at the Eavestown Docks.
Short verson of my 5 stars.
White Sun - Same as seen on the map
Georga - A Yellow Star identical in mass to our sun
Kaldasa (sp?) - A weak Orange star
Red Sun - A Red Dwarf
Blue Sun - Change to another Red dwarf. Change also the orbital plane and proclaim it a star "captured" by White Sun during stellar drift around the Galactic core.
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Well in essence, yes. It's done and in print.
The fact is, despite some of the trappings of hard SF, Firefly and Serenity were never genuine "hard" science fiction. Joss always said something like "don't ask me science questions or I'll cry!"
No matter what you do, fitting everything that is in "canon" to a real star system is not possible with the infiormation that came direct from Universal as regards the structure of The Verse. We (I say we, this was mostly before I was involved) *did* try to make it work with Sirius as a pattern for a trinary system, which in physics terms did mostly work. But word came down that this was not how it was, so a lot of hard work had to be dropped. However fitting canon became much easier with the 5 star model.
It's a wonderful fictional Verse and while the map is not perfect, it's the best possible at the moment. If you can swallow gravity control and terraforming in decades, a few clashes with real cosmology should be easy :-)
There is night. At the distances that exist even in this very compact Verse, a star the size of Old Sol would be very bright for sure, but still barely a disc. At the distance of Jupiter, would the Jovian moons for example experience what we would consider full daylight? I don't think so. I don't dispute that some worlds would probably have drastically different sidereal periods to Earth normal, but adjustments would be possible. We have to assume that.
The Blue Sun is then "an anomally" (my speculation), a star with a distinctly blue tinge that nevertheless behaves unlike any existing blue star. (I know, I know, physics, but what ya gonna do?) Joss says there's a Blue Sun and that's that. (Note that it is in a very different orbital plane to the other members of the system and is thus more likely to be a more recent and temporary member)
The fact that the Map is generating such interest and discussion is a *good* thing :-)
Where were you when they formed the map Brain Trust? :-)
I'd rather the Map was actually done and out there than still be arguing minutae and it does look the business after all.
Nick
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemming:
Where were you when they formed the map Brain Trust? :-)
A good question. My first thought when looking at it was "Oh damn, Why was I not consulted?" The answer is: Because I was sitting in cold-ass Indiana and not sunny-warm LA with Whedon and Company. Grr. Arg.
I regard Joss Whedon, grouped with Neil Gaiman and Frank Herbert, to be the greatest storytellers of this age. Honestly, I'd be honored to consult my knowledge out for free. Consider Tycho at Penny Arcade:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/2/20/
On that note the call would come to my phone and go something like this:
RING RING
Me: "Yes Mr. Whedon?"
Joss: "What do you know about astronomy?"
Me: "I know everything."
Joss: "When can you be in LA to consult?"
Me: "Immediately."
END OF CALL
Yea sure, that's a pathetic fantasy. Hope everyone got a giggle.
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I got a look at the map this evening at the Raleigh "Cool Colony Classics" screening.
OMJoss! It's so good I have to go get one as a Christmas present to myself.
http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/
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ncbrowncoat, I noticed on your site that Sci-Fi is showing Serenity on Jan. 3 at 9PM. Sounds like a perfect time to get some Browncoats together or better yet recruit some new ones. I seriously considered driving to Raleigh to see the movie but I'm 8 hours away! Hope you guys had a great time.
And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an overabundance of schooling.
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