Differences in taste

POSTED BY: NTXBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Saturday, May 29, 2004 01:30
VIEWED: 3484
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FINN MAC CUMHAL

Saturday, May 22, 2004 8:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Perhaps the food analogy is off the mark, but I do believe there is a point when art can become morally repugnant and be objectionable for that reason. Yes, we all have different notions of what is and is not repugnant, but that doesn't invalidate anyone's judgement or get into "ideological pandering." (Actually, what do you mean by "ideological pandering" in the first place?)

We do all have different ideas of what is repugnant, and one person's idea shouldn't necessarily invalidate another person's idea. That certainly doesn't mean that one must necessarily agree with another person's opinion. That was my whole point. As to whether another person's opinion is pandering to an ideology, that's something else entirely. I haven't read Goulman's analysis of Enterprise, so I don't really know what his opinion is, however from your assessment of it, it does seem possible that Goulman is seeking to force the Enterprise theme into a political mold that probably is unjustified. Enterprise is probably not a pulpit for a fascist militant political ideology. And it seems odd to me that someone would seek to imply such a thing from this show. From the few times in which I've seen the show, I've never come away with the idea that it was trying to impress some fascist militant concept on me. I'm reminded of a conversation I had with a friend a little while ago when I was trying to get him to watch Firefly. He gave me some ridiculous line about how Firefly was pro-gun and misogynistic and some other crap. It's the same thing. It's blind pandering to an ideology. It's just a tv show for godsakes.

When Jews are portrayed as rat faced child molesters then I might reconsider how entertaining Enterprise is.

Also, I don't think that racist or anti-Semitic slurs necessarily take away from artistic merit, although they might be offensive. And you're welcome to imply whatever you want from that, but art certainly does not have to conform to yours or my version of decency. Something does not fail to be art because it is offensive. But that doesn't mean that because something may have artistic merit that it necessarily has social merit or a valid theme. The Virgin Mary piece in New York that incorporated shit to make a point certainly has artistic merit, but that doesn’t make it any less stupid as far as I’m concerned.

As far as Barney goes, I’m not entirely sure that is necessarily art. I don’t think a whole hell of a lot of creativity went into it, but I’m sure some people disagree with me. I’m not really a Barney expert, and with any luck, I never will be.

HKCAVALIER

Saturday, May 22, 2004 9:15 PM

Quote:
I’m not really a Barney expert, and with any luck, I never will be.

LOL. I envy you...

Quote:
Something does not fail to be art because it is offensive. But that doesn't mean that because something may have artistic merit that it necessarily has social merit or a valid theme.

I think this is the crux of the matter, Finn. I don't believe that offensive art fails to be art, so much as if fails to have social merit. I think that's a fair and appropriate judgement for an individual to make. I certainly don't think that I or anyone else should be given the power to censor bad or offensive art, but I sure don't mind if people have furvent opinions about it online.

Also, it occurs to me that I generally feel that the world suffers from taking art too lightly, rather than too seriously. "It's only art" justifies cutting art education out of our children's lives, f'rinstance. I like that Ghoulman thinks Star Trek matters, that it forms us in some way. I think that's a beautiful way of looking at it. Art is a reflexion of life and if it shows us something we don't want to see, we can either blame the art, trivialize it, and continue our unexamined lives; or we can do what we can to change ourselves so that what we see in the mirror is more to our liking. I think it takes courage to do that. Courage, and a healthy respect for what art has to say. I tend to give art a great deal of power in my life and art has repayed me a thousand fold.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

THATWEIRDGIRL

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 9:09 PM

I am kinda afraid to post here, because there's all this big talk and fancy words flyin' around. Just so you know, I like entertainment and art. I like beer and wine. Heck, I can even tell you a bit about a wine from the tasting---it's just practice and training. See, ah, what I wanted to say is...

give me one scotch , one bourbon, one beer.--John Lee Hooker is art and entertainment.

www.thatweirdgirl.com

ANNIK

Saturday, May 29, 2004 1:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
(snipped)
Or an even less popular opinion. I find Barney to be a very spooky show full of disempowering, people pleasing, incoherent stories and songs for children. The underlying ethos of that show seems to be that children should be good because that's what grown-ups want. Goodness is very much equated with obedience on that show. If I want to raise a conformist who doesn't think for herself, then I'll plop her down in front of Barney as early as possible. I have been known to call Barney a fascist. People have been known to disagree with me.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

Can't say I ever watched enough of Barney to make a determination as to its fascistisness, but then, I don't let my kids watch crap like that in the first place. Firefly, Austin Powers, Star Wars, Paint Your Wagon, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat, Dune, Royal Wedding ... those are by far the most popular items on our DVD shelf.

I was just getting old enough not to bother much with cartoons when the Smurfs showed up on the scene ... and was I ever disgusted! An entire show that says it's good and acceptable to name people based on their looks ... Brainy or Papa or whatever. Yeah, well, *that* certainly gives our kids a shining example of getting to know the people around them without judging them. (Can you feel the sarcasm?)

Good thread, IMO.

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

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