KO on Prop 8
POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Friday, November 14, 2008 13:30
VIEWED: 7790
PAGE 5 of 10
there are gay catholics and gay christians, and there are denominations of both where they are welcome, and recognized, and can be married.
They have churches where they are wanted. These degrees of tolerance, and interpretations of the bible are no different than the grand distinctions between catholicism and protestantism, Jahova's witness, Mormanism, Ad nauseum. Nobody has a lock on the true intention of your God, or on the meaning of the words in the bible.
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Wulf
After ALL of the posts you're STILL reduced to 'separate but equal' ? "You know, it might be better if gays came up with their own "church"."
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Silence is consent.
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Well there is a serious misunderstanding on Wulf's part, that marriage is a religious institution and that "gay marraige" would require churches to perform "gay marriages".
Look, Wulf as I said, I got "married" in a courthouse. No religion involved, and yet- here I am, married IN THE EYES OF THE LAW.
But let's use YOUR logic: Let's say that legal recognition of "gay marriage" would REQUIRE religions to perform gay marriages.
I'm a hetero. Law recognizes hetero unions. Does that mean that although I was born Catholic, that a synagogue MUST marry me because my "marriage" is recognized by law??? I'm now areligious- are Presbyterian Chruches FORCED to marry me because my marriage is recognized by law??
No.
Churches can refuse to marry whomever THEY refuse to marry, even if THE LAW recognizes the marriage as legal. Marriage in a church is a voluntary act, that means that both Church and partners have to agree to it.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Sigy,
Then what the fuck are we talking about?
Btw, your marriage is a civil union. It is recognized by the state, but not by the church of whatever religion you profess in.
I have never said that gays couldn't get what you have.
I don't give a fuck if gays want to get a civil union. But they want it to be recognized as a "marriage", which is a religious institution.
Marriage is different from civil unions. Maybe thats where the confusion lies.
Its different because marriage is recognized by the state and the church of your belief.
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"Definition: A civil marriage is one where the marriage ceremony has a government or civil official perform the ceremony.
A civil marriage is a wedding that takes place without any religious affiliation and meets the legal requirements of the locale."
Marriage is NOT a religious ceremony. BTW - pastors etc are given state authority to perform marriages that are recognized as legal marriages. The religious ceremonies derive their validity from civil laws and are granted authority by civil institutions, not the other way around.
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BTW: That's why the FLDS claims their marriages are 'spiritual marriages' and not legal marriages, b/c they sect hasn't been granted authority to perform legally binding marriages.
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Quote:No, my marriage is NOT a "civil union", it is a "civil marriage". This is the part that YOU don't understand.
Sigy, Then what the fuck are we talking about? Btw, your marriage is a civil union. It is recognized by the state, but not by the church of whatever religion you profess in.
There are LEGAL ramifications to whether something is called a "marriage" or a "civil union". States have laws recognizing each other's marriages. My (civil) marriage is recognized in the state where we were married (NY) and ALSO where we now reside (CA)... and in all the other 48 states as well. Our marriage is recognized by the Federal government which allows us to file joint income tax returns. If we were to end our marriage (in whatever state) there are laws defining the dissolution and separation of assets. As a married couple, we can adopt.
Given all that, clearly we are a "married couple" even though we had a civil marriage, not a religious one.
If we had a "civil union" that would ONLY be recognized by the State where it was performed (NY) but by NO OTHER STATE. A "civil union/ domestic partnership" is a "civil contract" which is recognized ONLY IN THAT STATE. It is NOT recognized by the Federal government, nor by any other state. It entails far fewer rights and benefits regarding insurances, wills, etc. If you go to a hospital as a domestic partner, you'd better bring your medical power of attorney, durable power of attorney and HIPPA release because otherwise you'd be screwed, especially if you were NOT in the state where your civil union/ domestic partnership was filed.
Civil marriage, civil union: not the same thing.
Civil marriage, religious marriage: Both legally recognized, but a religious ceremony is a voluntary act and not required by law.
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Let's party like its 1929.
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So given all that... how do you feel about civil marriage for gays?
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Ehh,
I object to the term "marriage" for a lifestyle choice.
But its not my call anyways.
It has been decided. By the people.
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If it were to be re-decided by the courts how would you feel about THAT?
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Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ehh,
I object to the term "marriage" for a lifestyle choice.
But its not my call anyways.
It has been decided. By the people.
Isn't marriage itself a lifestyle choice?
And where do people get the idea that marriage is a religious institution? It is ALSO a religious institution, but it has been around much longer than most of the religions widely practiced today, as a legal contract independent of religion.
Why do religious people think they have the monopoly on the term?
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