We deserve 30 minutes of Joss's time

POSTED BY: Bringitback
UPDATED: Sunday, October 26, 2008 14:59
VIEWED: 9702
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EMBERS

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bringitback:
2 comics in almost 4 years?

If thats his grand plan...then I give up.

The reason why he wont commit to any storyline post Serenity and barely anything before the BDM is because he still holds hope.

I wanna hear him say it.

I think he DID say it, in a radio interview on fanboy radio:
http://www.fanboyradio.com/2006/11/
he doesn't want to squander the stories in his head on comic books... personally I'm disappointed that Book's story will be the next comic, instead of waiting until some day when Ron Glass can perform it.

Joss still does hope for a Serenity sequel someday, with the actors he loves (and we love too), but it has to be when Universal green lights it BECAUSE THEY OWN THE RIGHTS!!!

*sigh*

Personally I think it will get made, as soon as Joss' name is back up on top (I'm hoping Dollhouse will do that)
or when Nathan or Summer or one of our BDHs is a big enough star to get a picture made which features them....
but in the mean time I wish people would stop blaming Joss as though he doesn't love Firefly/Serenity.

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=15816

GWEK

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:24 PM

Star Wars, Star Trek, and even X-Files had an advantage that Firefly never did: good timing. All of those franchises started at times when the audience (the American viewing audience in particular) was looking for something that they offered. Not so, Firefly.

To paraphrase Joss from one of the Firefly books, some of the early stuff went something like this:

Quote:
FOX network: In the wake of 9/11, we're looking for something patriotic, stirring, and black-and-white. Do you have that?

Joss: I've got this series about 9 people living a hardscrabble existence on a spaceship, barely able to feed themselves. It's very dark and thought-provoking.

FOX network: Um... Okay... We'll take it!

With a start like that, is it any wonder the series failed? While it's popular to blame FOX for the failure of the show, I think it's fair to say that Joss had a hand in it himself, in a way. I think maybe he loved Firefly too much... so much that he pitched it immediately instead of waiting for the right time.

To some extent, that's all academic now, but I think it does lead us to Joss's frame of mind with respect to Firefly/Serenity (including his apparent unwillingness to commit to the future of the franchise in a meaningful way).

Joss loves Firefly, plain and simple. He's said that he loves the show in a way that he hasn't loved anything else that he's worked on, and I suspect that hasn't changed. It was gutwrenching for him to see his beloved baby fail as a TV series, and although he had the vindication of the movie--and despite legions of loyal Browncoats--the movie was largely a Phyrric victory because it didn't lead to much more. So here's poor Joss, now, seeing his beloved baby kicked in the teeth--TWICE.

A man can take only so much, I imagine.

So what recourse does he have? Well, like our dear crew, he's gotta keep flying... which means work on projects like THE DOLLHOUSE (which I'm sure will be excellent, but will not be Firefly). The success of the initial Serenity comic series and the Buffy series has allowed Joss to explore comics further, but he hasn't busted the franchise wide open like Lucas or Roddenberry because, unlike those guys, he still wants to be in control of the story.

I think it's definitely telling, though, that he has not expanded the series beyond the final moments of Serenity. Even though he won't actively discuss it, that tells me that he's still got hope. He can't voice it, though, because his hope (and ours) has already been dashed so many times that I think false promises are worse than silence.

For those who feel that Firefly is already gone: you need to get out to the comic store more often. It might not be near to monthly, but I'm pretty sure Dark Horse Comics would disagree that the franchise is over.

And as long as Joss is plugging along in some way, we're still flying!

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 7:50 PM

These topics are always so frustrating.

Do you people really not understand the forces at work here?? Admittedly, I'm a creative professional living in Los Angeles, so my view on the industry and this situation in particular is a bit different than the view from Wisconsin or wherever, I'm sure, but it boggles my mind that people can be so dense when it comes to the forces and pressures within Hollywood.

Joss does not own Firefly or Serenity. He cannot bring it back just because he wants to. The fan base is not large, and has not shown strong growth recently or at any point since Firefly premiered. All products released for Firefly and Serenity have barely recouped production costs, and so both Fox and Universal proceed with caution with everything related to either.

These are FACTS. You can deny them all you want, but these are facts that are well known within the right circles in LA.

The other major force at work here is the tension between Universal and Fox. Neither Serenity nor Firefly have ever made significant revenue, but both Fox and Universal will be damned if they let the other see profit off the license before they do. So it ends up in a stale mate. Any move Fox tries to make, Universal sends in their lawyers to dispute the rights. Any move Universal makes, Fox sends their lawyers. Anyone remember the Firefly MMO that was suppose to be happening? The rumor is that the lawyers killed it.

In a way, the Browncoats have hurt themselves with this constant talk of "We are mighty, we do the impossible!" Both Fox and Universal are convinced that although the fanbase is still small, someday it will grow and be the next Star Trek or Star Wars. It's like buying the stock for a little start-up tech company, because you keep hearing that they're going to be the next Google. So both Fox and Universal want to just sit on the rights, make sure that the other doesn't encroach on any of their rights, and wait for the day when the fanbase grows large enough to cash in big time. But believe me, they're willing to wait 20+ years for their Firefly/Serenity stock to be worth something.

So where does Joss fit into all this? He technically has very few rights. But everything in Hollywood operates on keeping each other happy. Universal and Fox have full rights to do whatever they want with the license, but they don't because that would mean pissing Joss off and lead to him not wanting to work with them again. Joss could continue to campaign for Firefly/Serenity to the exclusion of everything else, but it would take less than 6 weeks for him to be seen as a one-trick pony, a whiny untalented writer with an overdeveloped sense of self-importance and entitlement who continually harps on the greatness of something that failed to turn a profit -- and that would lead directly to Universal and Fox not working with him on any project ever again, Firefly or anything else.

There's also a little thing called creative fatigue. As a creative professional, there's only so much of yourself you can put into a given project before it starts eating away at you. This is even more true when a project faces brick walls and uphill battles. If you put too much in, you risk depression, extreme weight gain or loss, and the inability to come up with the next thing, etc. The longer you put too much in, the worse it gets. It ends careers frequently, so you have to know when to get out, when to move on. If you lose your ability to come up with something new, beyond the current project, then you lose your ability to function as a creative professional.

So removing yourself from a situation where you are experiencing creative fatigue is a do-or-die necessity. It doesn't mean that you stop loving the project, but sometimes it's best to take a breather for a few years and come back to it with a fresh mind-set. The power players in Hollywood are always shifting, and what was seen as unmarketable two years ago is hugely popular now. So when you run into brick walls time and time again, the key is to sto

DOGJOY3

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I love the show and all, but... isn't there a time when you can just let something die with dignity?

It is never going to be Star Wars.It will never come back.

I think we are beating a dead horse! But I will still hope?!

EMBERS

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:42 PM

Dogjoy3, I will keep hoping too....
seriously listen to the love in Joss' voice when he talks in this radio broadcast/podcast here:
http://www.fanboyradio.com/2006/11/
he doesn't show up until :12:45

he talks about why he never allowed Firefly/Serenity novelizations here at :22:05
because these are HIS stories and he is not done telling them...

AND he talks in detail about why he doesn't do more comics here at :26:00
because he loves the actors' voices doing these characters and he isn't ready to tell the stories without these actors!

So it is obvious to me that this is NOT a dead horse...
it is only badly injured.

There are things that could bring the horse back out again,
Joss becoming a big name that could sell a movie just on that basis....
Nathan Fillion and/or Summer Glau (or one of the other BDHs) becoming a Big Name bankable star that could sell a movie just on the basis of their name on the project.

THEN I think it would be possible, but I'm afraid Firefly & Serenity is still not enough to carry a big budget film.

I do encourage you to listen to this, which gives me hope...
for someday....
maybe.

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=15816

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
For those who feel that Firefly is already gone: you need to get out to the comic store more often. It might not be near to monthly, but I'm pretty sure Dark Horse Comics would disagree that the franchise is over.

Maybe I'm an exception, but I don't really care about the franchise. I would watch any future movie, sure, but I already felt "Serenity" was a disappointment in many ways (Great visuals, some awesome scenes, but overall? Meh.) so I am not terribly impressed with the idea of more movies.

What I loved was the series and where it might have gone.

That one is dead and can never be made in the way it would have been, so... *shrug*

I'm glad for those who enjoy the comics, though.

Mostly, I'm just annoyed when people start acting like Joss owes them anything at all. If he turned his back on it all right now, all the fans would have a right to do would be to say "Thanks for giving us Firefly." Feelings of entitlement are deeply annoying.

MSB

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:31 PM

CK well said:)

Just keep flying...we might not get out show back, but hey we've made some wonderful friends and had a great time along the way so the journey has been very worth it

Joss owes us nothing. He made something wonderful and we appreciate it. We wish there would be more and maybe someday there will, but for now I think just a simple thank you for a piece of art well rendered and the joy of our shiny FFF home should suffice

____________________________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength; loving someone deeply gives you courage."
Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.”-Dave Barry

BORIS

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:40 PM

Joss is an artist...the best artists evolve as they progress through life...how boring would it be if they kept producing the same painting/sculpture etc?
I love Firefly I would eagerly absorb new instalments, but I just as eagerly lap up any new Whedon material. He doesn't owe any of us anything he doesn't feel like giving. He's not our Dad, he's just an incredibly creative guy that makes movies and Tv that people become passionate about for all the right reasons.He has given so much great stuff to us already, and we should just be greatful. Also he has introduced us to some outstanding actors, and It's always lovely to see them do their thing in different roles and grab new audiences. Stop whining and judging already, and appreciate what Joss and co have given.

NCBROWNCOAT

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 10:03 PM

I couldn't agree more with MSB and Boris. I'll eagerly devour anything Joss or the BDH's do. Give Joss a break and let him create. I loved "Dr. Horrible" and I'm eagerly awaiting "Doll House".

And Nathan is going to have a BIG January too. "Castle" premieres in January on ABC and his movie "Chilled in Miami" is released then also. I've heard through the fan grapevine that they called him back to do more scenes about two months ago for the movie. And hopefully the indie, "Trucker" will be released.

And I have met the most awesome people here and at other Firefly/Serenity sites. I met some at Dragon Con, which should have been called "Firefly/Serenity BDH's draws the biggest crowds". And it got me involved in both CSTS and KidsNeedtoRead.

Keep a little flame in your heart for Firefly and fan it occasionally by trying to recruit more Browncoats to the 'Verse.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

WASHNWEAR

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 10:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaliforniaKaylee:
These topics are always so frustrating.

Do you people really not understand the forces at work here?? Admittedly, I'm a creative professional...

...nothing else you can do, and making noise actually hurts your cause.

~CK

Wait a minute - aren't we supposed to make at least a little noise...?

Thank you, CK, for taking the time to type all that out. I had reached more or less the same bottom line (keep buying product, keep spreading the word, hope for the best, prepare for the worst, etc.), but I appreciate the informed insight into just how the Hollywood cow eats the creative cabbage. I'm not sure it's so much a matter of everybody not understanding the aspects you mention (at several points in your post I was thinking, "Well yeah, sure - that makes sense") - some things are just hard to keep in mind when you're feeling frustrated and neglected and still trying to figure out how "The World According to Jim" lasted 7 seasons.

The conclusion I've reached regarding Firefly's/Serenity's future runs more-or-less thusly: Whatever Joss wanted to say with Firefly, he will find another show(s)/project(s) to say it through...if he gets to say it again through Firefly/Serenity, I'm sure (or at least I hope) he'll sieze the opportunity. Likewise, I can't imagine any of the cast not cherishing that time in their careers 'til the day they die - as a fine place and time to be present and accounted for. I think if I were any one of them I would be very eager to at least consider stepping back into it, now or 10 years from now. In the meantime, life goes on. Nothin' original about any of that - just sayin'...

One thing I do look forward to - if the whole thing falls out this way - is 20 years from now seeing Malcolm Reynolds portrayed by Patrick Stewart in a whole lot of latex.

It was like at least the upper lip was stiff when we got here!

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