A blow for Palin fans everywhere....

POSTED BY: MrBlueSun
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 18:46
VIEWED: 10564
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KIRKULES

Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
It's funny how the right ignores the facts when it comes to Obama's associations, and also ignores the facts when it comes to McCain's and Palin's associations. As Colbert said, reality just has a strong liberal bias.

Can SOMEBODY (ANYBODY!) please explain to me why it's alright to run for the White House and be married to a long-time secessionist!?

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McCain/Palin: The first presidential ticket that features two candidates who have both been found to have violated ethics standards.

It seems like you're the one ignoring the facts when it comes to Obama's associations. Conservatives are well aware of McCain's flaws, but at this point he's our only option. Almost all politicians today are flawed in one way or another, we have made the judgment that McCain will do less damage than Obama. Politician are like policemen, just the fact that they want the job should disqualify them. You have to be somewhat screwed up to want either job. Just look at the recent 700 billion dollar bailout, by the time it got passed, dumb ass politicians added 150 billion in pork. The biggest financial crises in 100 years and they thought it was a good idea to load up the solution with what caused the problem in the first place, and McCain and Obama both supported it.

On the "secessionist" thing, I think it's a matter of what you think is worse, someone who thinks it's alright to pal around with a domestic terrorist or someone who theoretically believes that a State should be able to secede from the union. Thomas Jefferson thought so, and he's still a pretty popular dude where I come from. I think if you would take a poll of those living south of the Mason Dixon Line you'd find the majority still think secession in legal.

KHYRON

Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
On the "secessionist" thing, I think it's a matter of what you thinks is worse, someone who thinks it's alright to pal around with a domestic terrorist or someone who theoretically believes that a State should be able to secede from the union.

Fine, just ignore the post I made about why Obama was associated with him and that even Republicans, including the mayor, are associated with him as well. Ignoring the facts is a well-known strategy by the GOP base - or is it a tactic?

Quote:
Thomas Jefferson thought so, and he's still a pretty popular dude where I come from. I think if you would take a poll of those living south of the Mason Dixon Line you'd find the majority still think secession in legal.

Alright, you have a VP candidate married to a guy who hates America so much that he doesn't want his home state to be a part of it, and you say that's just fine because people in the South are okay with it too? I'm not talking about the legality of it, I'm talking about the patriotism. You'll have a guy who doesn't respect America enough to want to be a part of it spitting tobacco and putting his feet on the desk in the Oval Office. Are you really okay with that, or are you just telling yourself you should be okay with that because having an educated liberal person in there is worse?

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McCain/Palin: The first presidential ticket that features two candidates who have both been found to have violated ethics standards.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:

On the "secessionist" thing, I think it's a matter of what you think is worse, someone who thinks it's alright to pal around with a domestic terrorist or someone who theoretically believes that a State should be able to secede from the union.

Kirk, my respect for you has increased with this post; your reasoning is, er, something, er, worthy of respect *not the best worded sentence ever*.

But really, is a person always a terrorist, even if he's renounced his past violent ways? Even if he's changed at his core beliefs? Is there no redemption?
Did Darth Vader not learn??
Can't Obama be allowed to consort with peeps that have a severely checkered past?
If not- then Bush is likely a terrorist as well, and surely Cheney, who palled around with Saddam hisself....

Now, if only Palin would give up her stupidity and embrace knowledge & geography....

Chrisisall

SWISH

Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
I wish McCain had someone like Riverlove writing his campain comercials, he'd win in a landslide.

Wow - I find that entertaining. I read RL's post and thought: OK, first Palin was the thing that was going to sink the Dems, and since Palin has turned out to be nothing but a dead weight on McCain, now it's this ACORN thing that'll do it.

Seems to me that folks like Riverlove are desperate for anything to back up their fear of Obama, and are ready to cling to any wispy thin thing that might do it. Which falls right in line with McCain's pathetic grasping for straws over the past few weeks, and which is precisely why he's losing independents, and hence the election. So - I don't see RL's approach as that much different than the one's that bombing for McCain right now.

But more than than that I have to wonder, and I was wondering it before things got so creepy in the past week: do you Obama haters really believe that he is a terrorist in disguise who is secretly out to destroy America?

Really, really really I'm wondering. Because my assumption so far has been that no one really believes that. You might be afraid of Obama for other reasons and think: "But hey, if we can convince the idiotic electorate, all those proles in Dumbf*ck, Oklahoma that Obama's a terrorist, then he'll lose and that's all that matters. Because McCain has better policies."

Hey, I sympathize with that. I certainly hoped for anything to keep Bush out in 2000 and 2004. Anything, really. I though Bush was bad for reasons that the regular electorate wasn't going to figure out, so I had to hope for *anything* to shut him down. Unfortunately, it didn't happen.

So I get it - scare the idiots enough with implausible BS about Barack "Hussein" and that's just better in the long run for you who love McCain. Right?

But the events of the past week have got me wondering: are you Obama haters not playing, but you really and truly believe that he's a Muslim terrorist America hater out to do nothing but tear the US down? Really, no snark here - do you really believe that?

KHYRON

Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:07 AM

Chris, you've also given me some head-scratchers in this thread, your last post complementing Kirkules on what was pure sophism is one of them, and here's another:

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Yeah, but let's not behave as if the Obama/Biden ticket is squeeky clean, at their heart, they still represent status quo BS, just a more palatable version IMO.

I'm not arguing that the Obama/Biden ticket is squeaky clean, and arguing against this hate- and fear-mongering smear campaign shouldn't be seen as saying "My team is perfect!". Every independent, objective analysis of the Obama/Ayers relationship that I've seen has said that there's nothing at all sinister about it. Yet telling the real story behind the Ayers non-issue is seen as being "subjective" or "partisan".

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McCain/Palin: The first presidential ticket that features two candidates who have both been found to have violated ethics standards.

KIRKULES

Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

But really, is a person always a terrorist, even if he's renounced his past violent ways? Even if he's changed at his core beliefs? Is there no redemption?
Did Darth Vader not learn??
Can't Obama be allowed to consort with peeps that have a severely checkered past?
If not- then Bush is likely a terrorist as well, and surely Cheney, who palled around with Saddam hisself....

Now, if only Palin would give up her stupidity and embrace knowledge & geography....

I do think it's possible for someone to somewhat redeem themselves, but Ayers has very recently said things that lead me to believe he has not changed. He's just mellowed a little with age and so he can run in the liberal elite circles. I think Obama actually shares many of Ayres radical views, though I'm sure Obama would never condone violence. Darth Vader is a little harder case as he actually destroyed an entire planet. I don't think there's any coming back from that.

KIRKULES

Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
So I get it - scare the idiots enough with implausible BS about Barack "Hussein" and that's just better in the long run for you who love McCain. Right?

But the events of the past week have got me wondering: are you Obama haters not playing, but you really and truly believe that he's a Muslim terrorist America hater out to do nothing but tear the US down? Really, no snark here - do you really believe that?

I think you have invented most of the Obama hatred you see in your own head. Nobody here that I've seen has suggested that Obama is a terrorist, just that it shows bad judgment hanging out with one. Most of the Conservatives here have said that they think Obama is a good man. I have quite a few liberal/socialist/commie friends and I have no problem with that. If any one of them ran for President I would appose them just as strongly as I appose Obama.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Chris, you've also given me some head-scratchers in this thread, your last post complementing Kirkules on his sophism is one of them

I just mean to say that giving reasoning of any sort trumps blind 'Obama is evil' rhetoric.

Quote:
and here's another:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Yeah, but let's not behave as if the Obama/Biden ticket is squeeky clean, at their heart, they still represent status quo BS, just a more palatable version IMO.
I'm not arguing that the Obama/Biden ticket is squeaky clean, and arguing against this hate- and fear-mongering smear campaign shouldn't be seen as saying "My team is perfect!".

No, I get that, I'm just trying to come at this from all angles to demonstrate to the right wingers that Obama is not the Chosen one who will liberate us from all the problems we now face. As far as I'm concerned, he's the sanest choice in this insane world.

Connorisall

CHRISISALL

Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Nobody here that I've seen has suggested that Obama is a terrorist, just that it shows bad judgment hanging out with one.

I do not believe that occasional meetings constitute 'hanging out with'.
But your mileage may vary.

isall

CHRISISALL

Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Darth Vader is a little harder case as he actually destroyed an entire planet. I don't think there's any coming back from that.

Re: Bush, how about destroying a small part of one, does that count as well? Some Iraqis may beg to differ with you on that.

isall

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