tam parents – naïve, impotent, or in on it

POSTED BY: oct0gen
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 07:34
VIEWED: 5739
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OCT0GEN

Wednesday, October 8, 2008 3:29 PM

ok, its clear that the parents have been drinking the alliance kool aid but are they:

1. Completely naïve and unaware to what is happening to river and truly believe that the alliance would never to anything bad especially with their social status.

2. Aware that something might be wrong but feel that it is best in the long run not to make ripples in the water and get themselves labeled as troublemakers with the alliance and/or they really couldn’t do anything about it anyway.

3. Are in the know about river being “studied” (but not necessarily tortured) and feel it is a necessary sacrifice in the name of science for the betterment of the alliance, mankind, and of course, their social status.

i always got the impression that deep down, they knew the academy is not exactly what was described in the brochure.

ARTCAT81

Wednesday, October 8, 2008 6:33 PM

I really think they were in on it,

Simons job was to become a brilliant Doctor, when River asked what she could do, her father said (paraphrased)not to worry about it till much later.

I almost wonder if the parents had the alliance muck with genetics to enhance their childrens brilliance, and in exchange, if one of them showed promise for something more, the alliance got that child.

Browncoats are the shiniest folks in the 'verse
www.texasartcat.com/bluesun.html <--my bluesunshop

JONGSSTRAW

Wednesday, October 8, 2008 7:13 PM

# 3

In denial, but hopeful she'll be ok.

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, October 9, 2008 6:23 AM

I think it's a combination of all three.

I got the impression from the father that Simon was deemed the brilliant child and River was somewhat annoying to him, someone to be tolerated.
I believe that only Simon really knew just how brilliant River was.

Another part of me believes that if the parents knew anything about River it was in their best interests to keep it quiet lest anyone find out about their understanding with the Alliance and the Academy. Why else would Simon's father freak when he went snooping about the Academy. He was more than willing to cut his son off, just to keep his status among the upper crust in their society.

I believe they knew that River was being "studied" and made sure that they kept themselves in the dark. When Simon brought River's letters to their attention they both ignored his pleas. But I don't think they truly cared whether or not she was tortured, if it meant social advancement they were all for it.

Captain: What is this?
Simon: She's my sister!

AGENTROUKA

Thursday, October 9, 2008 6:40 AM

Naive with a side of impotence.

Gabriel Tam strikes me as someone who had to work his way up a certain stretch of the social ladder and then married an already rich young woman. Nothing dramatic, but he broke through some kind of ceiling to get there.

Hence his great focus on Simon achieving the status of "brilliant doctor" while taking a more relaxed attitude with River, the baby who is both a girl and already so gifted she'll have no problem being exceptional. I think he loves his children, as evidenced by the easy way he interacts with them early, but when they get older, he emphasizes ambition.

His concern with his "permanent record" strikes me as a cultural thing. Osiris government, its society and the Alliance in general probably rely a lot on how a person looks "on paper". If Gabriel wants to remain in the social sphere he has attained, he wants that record to remain pristine, and since the Alliance records everything, it really appears like Simon is torpedoing his father's life work by dragging him to suspicious places.

Simon is, in fact, a lot like his father, I think, and both react very heatedly and erratically when cornered, both are very driven while sometimes short-sighted.
It makes emotional sense for Gabriel Tam to turn his back on Simon until he comes to his senses and stops endangering the family. Cold? Yes. But I sincerely suspect that Gabriel Tam thinks that Simon is delusional.

It would be just too easy and a rather boring tv choice to make the Tam parents evil. Making them victims of their own emotional and social complications is far more interesting because evil parents are rare in real life, flawed and overwhelmed ones are everywhere and relevant.

RALLEM

Thursday, October 9, 2008 7:38 AM

If the Tams first child had Simon and then River, I am shocked that the Alliance hadn't requested or forced them to make a third or fourth child hoping the new children would be even more potentially powerful than River. Just a thought though. Or maybe Simon wasn't the first child and there was an older Tam child who was already taken from them so the elder Tams already knew not to say anything for fear of being punished.

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MAL4PREZ

Thursday, October 9, 2008 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
It makes emotional sense for Gabriel Tam to turn his back on Simon until he comes to his senses and stops endangering the family. Cold? Yes. But I sincerely suspect that Gabriel Tam thinks that Simon is delusional.

It would be just too easy and a rather boring tv choice to make the Tam parents evil. Making them victims of their own emotional and social complications is far more interesting because evil parents are rare in real life, flawed and overwhelmed ones are everywhere and relevant.

Yep to that, and everything AR said!

As far as being "forced" to make more children... I'm of the school of thought that the Alliance isn't Nazi Germany. It isn't so flatly, blatantly evil. It's much like our own government - basically good and well-intentioned, but with pockets of rottenness where bad people abuse the system. But they have to do it in a *covert* way. Why else all the efforts at secrecy about things like the Academy and Miranda? Because if the people knew, the govt would be in deep doo-doo. The govt ain't allowed to play like that!

So I don't think the Alliance has the power to force people to procreate, or even to take their children away for spy development games. But some bad folks surely can take advantage of the People's assumption that their government would never, ever, ever do something bad. The Academy folks took advantage the Tam's assumption that their daughter must be fine because she's in a government sanctioned school. No matter the evidence to the contrary, the Tams couldn't accept that their govt had f**ked them, and their daughter.

Kind of relevant in today's world hmm? (And yes, I think Joss intended it to be.)

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

EMBERS

Thursday, October 9, 2008 2:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I'm of the school of thought that the Alliance isn't Nazi Germany. It isn't so flatly, blatantly evil. It's much like our own government - basically good and well-intentioned, but with pockets of rottenness where bad people abuse the system. But they have to do it in a *covert* way. Why else all the efforts at secrecy about things like the Academy and Miranda? Because if the people knew, the govt would be in deep doo-doo. The govt ain't allowed to play like that!

I agree... in fact I always thought that Joss wanted to show the underbelly of the idealized society in the Star Trek series...
if 'everything' is so perfect, and 'everyone' is free from crime and poverty, then probably there was hidden suppression of freedom and hidden corruption....
and/or there were attempts to modify people's true natures like in 'Serenity'
but in the central planets we know they weren't using the PAX
so I'm guessing there IS stuff going on, and most citizens are in denial.

I know a lot of people who, to this day, in spite of papers now being out in and in public record, who refuse to believe that Nixon did anything wrong! The human ability for complete and total denial is really amazing. Particularly if people are financially comfortable, then they really don't want to be bothered with whatever the government is doing...
they don't want to know. If they knew they might actually have to DO something (which would take up their precious time).

I think the Tams love their life, and their clubs, and they just wanted to believe that their daughter was in a good school which would only add to their own position in the world.

I wonder if, after River escaped and she & Simon became fugitives, if their parents are STILL living in denial, or if they lost their comforts and high position in society?

I still hope that someday we'll find out! (I'm hopeful like that)

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=15816

NCBROWNCOAT

Thursday, October 9, 2008 4:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
It makes emotional sense for Gabriel Tam to turn his back on Simon until he comes to his senses and stops endangering the family. Cold? Yes. But I sincerely suspect that Gabriel Tam thinks that Simon is delusional.

It would be just too easy and a rather boring tv choice to make the Tam parents evil. Making them victims of their own emotional and social complications is far more interesting because evil parents are rare in real life, flawed and overwhelmed ones are everywhere and relevant.

Yep to that, and everything AR said!

As far as being "forced" to make more children... I'm of the school of thought that the Alliance isn't Nazi Germany. It isn't so flatly, blatantly evil. It's much like our own government - basically good and well-intentioned, but with pockets of rottenness where bad people abuse the system. But they have to do it in a *covert* way. Why else all the efforts at secrecy about things like the Academy and Miranda? Because if the people knew, the govt would be in deep doo-doo. The govt ain't allowed to play like that!

So I don't think the Alliance has the power to force people to procreate, or even to take their children away for spy development games. But some bad folks surely can take advantage of the People's assumption that their government would never, ever, ever do something bad. The Academy folks took advantage the Tam's assumption that their daughter must be fine because she's in a government sanctioned school. No matter the evidence to the contrary, the Tams couldn't accept that their govt had f**ked them, and their daughter.

Kind of relevant in today's world hmm? (And yes, I think Joss intended it to be.)

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

What if the Tam's were unable to have children and were offered the opportunity to have "genetically enhanced" children that would be guaranteed to at least be above average or even brilliant? People strive for that even today. Look at all the parents that beg, pressure, or worse for their kids to be in the advanced classes or on the traveling sports teams.

Add that to your premise Mal4Prez and you have the Tam parents in a real mess, morally and with the Alliance. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place when Simon tries to tell them that the Alliance is messing with River's brain.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

AGENTROUKA

Thursday, October 9, 2008 4:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

but in the central planets we know they weren't using the PAX
so I'm guessing there IS stuff going on, and most citizens are in denial.

It doesn't necessarily have to be denial. I do not think that there is as much Wrongness going on in the Alliance that there is much for them to notice and then be in denial about. I think there is a very small group of of corrupted and powerful people acting within the Alliance, not defining it or the main of its body.

Considering the level of secrecy going on, I don't think that even a large part of the Alliance government itself knew anything about the Miranda experiment. Key members of parliament sounds pretty select and top level to me, something most Alliance-officials further down the line would have as little access to as the average citizen. Maybe there were even less "key" members of Parliament who didn't know. I don't think that the vast majority of Alliance officials would be fine with that sort of thing.

I am of the firm opinion that most of the Alliance is a body of people EXACTLY like the average person in a Western-type society today, with a bit more regulation than we are used to. Decent people working within a system they see as okay. Elected officials who are trying to do a job, more or less well, more or less well-intentionedly.

Nothing sinister or slavish in the average Alliance citizen, just a healthy dose of disinterest in politics and caring about as much about the Rim people than most of us do about any third world country.

Painting the entire Alliance as Evil is just far too black/white-thinking for an intelligent series like Firefly.

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