IT FAILED.
POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Thursday, October 2, 2008 21:24
VIEWED: 6432
PAGE 4 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Yeah, the Wall Street Jews got defeated by Congress. It's a miracle!
I'm surprised you don't see how this is all part of the Queen's master plan.
H
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"there was a law expressly saying that it was illegal for banks to say no to minorities when they wanted a house."
Hello,
This is misrepresentative of what the law says. The law says it is illegal for banks to say no to minorities just because they are minorities. Believe me, even at the height of the bubble, banks were saying no to minorities every day.
From where I was sitting, the #1 biggest problem was the presence of 'stated income' loans, which is a loan where the customer states they are making X income and you take their word for it, without requiring any verification of this fact.
The #2 biggest problem was LTV, or Loan To Value changes, where the equity banks were lending more than 80% and up to 105% of a home's value. Before the bubble started to inflate, we never lent more than 80%, which left some room to maneuver if you didn't recoup your investment.
The #3 biggest problem was a lack of reliable appraisals. This is where banks used Zillow or other unreliable home value device rather than deploying fraud-checked appraisers to appraise value. Hence we got some artificially inflated values on the properties we were lending upon. Compounded with item #2, this could put the bank very upside-down from day one.
The #4 biggest problem was 'fluctuating interest rate' products. The bank did cursory checks to make sure you could afford the introductory rate, but never checked to be sure you could afford the ugly rate that was coming down the pike.
The problem ain't minorities and it ain't lending to minorities or being required not to discriminate against minorities.
The problem was that these four things were not only allowed to happen, but salivated over by banks who knew that one day they'd have to pay the piper, but hoped to rake in a buttload of cash first.
I worked in a bank processing center with 200 processors who all shook their heads for four years at the rediculous policies of the bank. But the bonus checks kept rolling in, and everyone was told it was okay. Profits would mitigate losses. Home investment was a sure thing, because prices would always continue to rise...
Now I work in a bank processing center with 50 processors who are all scared shitless that the next layoff will have their ass on it.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Thanks Anthony.
This is the latest in a series of right-wing talking points, desperately pointing the finger anywhere but at greed and deregulation. I hear it from ppl that I expected a lot more from. 
In addition, there was out and out fraud. The problem is, some people will NEVER see the truth; they simply have too much emotional investment in their ideology. But thanks for setting the record straight.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.
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Quote:
It's just a fact that first there were many people who would never been allowed to get this credit (thanks to derivatives) that could now get it, and then there was a law expressly saying that it was illegal for banks to say no to minorities when they wanted a house.
I think you're being fed some bad info there. You seem to be saying that any black dude that strolls into a bank automatically gets a loan, BY LAW, regardless of whether or not he can pay it off. I disagree with that notion.
The laws state that IF you meet the requirements - which are the same regardless of your race or skin color, mind you - then they can't REFUSE you a loan simply because you're black.
What you had happening was, in large part - and this is according to loan officers and bank managers themselves, not from some random black dude who got burned by a bad loan he took on - banks were themselves inflating the income levels of applicants so that they could get them a loan, KNOWING full well that these people wouldn't be able to pay off that loan in a million years, but not caring because then they (the bank) turns around a resells the loan in a bundle with dozens of others, most of which are good and will be repaid.
Now, is there culpability? Sure, and plenty to go around. You have unscrupulous bank officers upselling to people whom they know for a fact are bad risks, and you have people wanting a house bad enough to go along with the lie because they think once they're in the house, they'll find a way to pay for it, and nothing will ever go wrong.
And it all came crashing down on all of them.
Like I've said before, I wanted a house, and I tried to buy one, but everyone I talked to INSISTED on loaning me far more money than I wanted to borrow or was comfortable making payments on, pushed-pushed-pushed those hideous fucking ARMs when I insisted on a fixed-rate, and pushed 30-year mortgages when I told them flat-out that I was only interested in a 20-year mortgage. I did what so many others SHOULD HAVE done, but didn't - I walked away.
And the thing is, now *I* am the one who feels like the fool, because the people who fucked up the biggest are getting help, while someone like me, who did nothing more sinister than try to live within his means, is getting to foot the bill.
I have no problem with black folk or anyone getting a home loan. But if you can't afford it, you deserve to lose your houseg (not you, FutureMissus - you're a special case!). And if you're the bank that sold it to them, you deserve to lose your business. I didn't take a risk, but I'm the one being punished for the risk that others took.
Pisses me off to no end, it does.
Mike
This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.
Trolls Against McCain!
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Quote:
Take it from me. I'm the tin foil hat wearing guy that said all of this would happen years ago when everybody told me I was nuts. Now I'm telling you that the sky isn't falling.
Hey, you weren't the only one.
Of course, I also said that China was going to challenge our superpower status without ever firing a shot, but simply by willing to work harder, longer, and cheaper than us. And they now hold an enormous amount of our economy in their hands, and are poised to do whatever they want with it.
They essentially got us into a "manufacturing arms race" in that they decided they'd go toe-to-toe with us on manufacturing, and would simply undercut us on the pricing, and we bit - we bought every single cheap shitty trinket they could throw our way, feeding them OUR money and OUR jobs, and in a headlong fucking rush to do it. Now they've got the means of production, and we've got about zero-point-dick.
Mike
This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.
Trolls Against McCain!
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Quote:
The problem was that these four things were not only allowed to happen, but salivated over by banks who knew that one day they'd have to pay the piper, but hoped to rake in a buttload of cash first.
Anthony:
Thank you for putting it much more eloquently than I ever could.
And it wasn't just that the banks thought they could make money before it all crashed, it's that they were playing a game of "musical chairs" with the mortgages, just hoping against hope that when the music finally stopped, THEY wouldn't be the ones who were left holding the notes. They always, at every turn and for every single one of them, figured that they'd be able to "sell up" the mortgage packages they had, either to another bank higher up the food chain, a mortgage lending giant, a foreign investment bank, a hedge fund, or what have you. They never for a minute stopped to think what would happen if ALL of them came due at once, and if ALL of the bad loans were suddenly called in. And that, in essence, is what crashed the system. The one thing the Powers That Be never counted on, is the one that bit 'em in the ass.
Mike
This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.
Trolls Against McCain!
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Well Mikey, you certainly know your stuff - yeah that's what he picked up.
The Saiga stuff looks pretty damn nice, and apparently they got a 12Gauge auto with a Kalishnikov action that looks a damn lot like Vera.
(is that what Vera really is, I wonder ?)
Since a rifle wouldn't do me much good, that Saiga-12 is actually looking pretty good to me, since slam-firing my M1897 is a fairly athletic procedure and I happen to be getting a bit long in the tooth for that sorta thing, yanno.
Since they tend to squish the top round of plastic shells, imma hafta go with shaped brass ones for my home defense ready loads however, despite the expense, cause an FTF in that situation is a really bad thing.
And after checking on the auction value of the twin 75's - I'll say with firm assurance the only way you'd get THOSE offa me is to scavenge them from my bullet-riddled, buried in empty brass corpse.
(nice try tho 
)
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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So, what to expect?
The market will go down. It may stay down for years... somewhere in the 11,000-point range (in today's dollars).
Banks, thrifts, and brokerages will fail. The FDIC and FSLIC will pick up the pieces of the banks and thrifts, but in the "shadow banking system" you're on your own.
Home prices will fall even further.
Some people will lose their houses.
The economy will slow down as people, banks, and brokerages stuff their money in mattresses.
What I do NOT see happening is a replay of the panic that almost-happened two weeks ago, when a "run" very nearly occurred. At least, not this year.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.
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What to Expect?
Hello,
I think we can expect some bad times, followed by some okay times, followed by some good times.
And that will all precede some bad times...
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Like I've said before, I wanted a house, and I tried to buy one, but everyone I talked to INSISTED on loaning me far more money than I wanted to borrow or was comfortable making payments on, pushed-pushed-pushed those hideous fucking ARMs when I insisted on a fixed-rate, and pushed 30-year mortgages when I told them flat-out that I was only interested in a 20-year mortgage. I did what so many others SHOULD HAVE done, but didn't - I walked away.
We ran into that too, but they didn't count on someone who would dig into it like a college thesis and come back to fight them on their own terms.
In the end, we got the terms we wanted, and a provision against selling our loan to the one company so revoltingly corrupt and nasty that the idea of our mortgage in their hands made us queasy.
And so, they cheated, went ahead and utterly violated the terms, counting on the fact that they could bury us in lawyers and cost us more than the entire loan amount in legal costs to enforce a provision against the very occurance that happened.
To me, that's a system breaker - when you cannot enforce a contract because one party cannot be legally compelled to obey it and the other can, it's a breach of the whole concept, and one reason, being on the recieving end of such, that I have no qualms about legalising contract enforcement using downright force.
Cause frankly, the bastards don't seem to understand nothing else, you ask me.
Just ask Japan, who wound up damn near literally throwing them out of the country.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/09/19/1095532176840.html?from=stor
ylhs
One of the reasons it was felt necessary to politically eliminat Elliot Spitzer was cause of his hardon for Citigroups often blatantly illegal practices, Sallie Krawcheck in particular had a hatred for the guy bordering on personal fetish.
So folks shouldn't be so quick to blame folks who *did* play by the rules, of a fixed game against financial organisations who break the rules without penalty whenever it suits them to do so.
And I mean without penalty, for if a company makes thirty million in profit for breaking a rule, and gets slapped with a three million fine, all that does is reinforce the message that crime pays, so long as you're ready to hand the Government a cut to keep em quiet.
We throw liquor store robbers in supermax for near life, and we keep softballing these bastards in club fed for pathetic little sentences, which on the face of it, is quite ridiculous, isn't it ?
Fuck their golden parachutes, we need to make it clear to them that they should be happy enough to avoid a fucking public lynching.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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