Do we have evidence that firefly guns are guns?

POSTED BY: dbsousa
UPDATED: Saturday, May 22, 2004 05:30
VIEWED: 17267
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DBSOUSA

Saturday, October 12, 2002 5:43 PM

What I mean is, do we have evidence that the slugs being thrown in Firefly are 20th century style, chemical explosion type cartridges?

For example, have we seen credible muzzle flashes, or smoke, or a reference that would indicate such?

If not, I would suggest that these slugs are magnetically propelled, leaving the barrel somewhere past the speed of sound.

I would love to see the scene where Jayne instructs the Doctor in the use of weapons. "Always make sure you degauss your weapon after a long fire fight. And make sure you use the indoor bullets if you are inside the ship. Otherwise you will punch a hole in the hull the size of your fist. Indoor bullets turn to powder when they hit anything harder than bone..."

CHARLIEBLUE

Saturday, October 12, 2002 6:28 PM

In "Our Mrs. Reynolds," they had to get a space suit in order for Vera to work in a vacuum. So it doesn't sound like magnets.

DBSOUSA

Saturday, October 12, 2002 6:37 PM

Drat...

Oh, well. When I get my own space western show, the guns will be gauss rifles and rail guns...

LOONYTOON

Saturday, October 12, 2002 7:10 PM

Why? Cartridge firearms work just fine, and they already go WAY past the speed of sound, that is the crack you hear when a rifle goes off. And it has shown known action types, such as Zoe`s shotgun, a couple of pump-actions, and some automatic pistols. And ammunition that breaks up on impact already exists, the glaser safety slug, and others I don`t remember off the top of my head. I can see gauss rifles used as ship-to-ship weapons, though.

DBSOUSA

Saturday, October 12, 2002 7:43 PM

Because explosive cartridges require a certain amount of oxygen to explode. change the mix in the atmosphere, and you change the power of the bullet. In my Space Western, the exact mix of oxygen to nitrogen to helium to CO2 will vary enough on each world to make boom sticks less reliable. (Actually on my Space Western, the guns will accelerate noble gasses to tremendous speeds, which will glow in the atmosphere, creating blasters whose ammo moves slow enough to trace...)

THEGN

Saturday, October 12, 2002 8:27 PM

Actually they wouldn't necessarily require any ambient oxygen.

And accelerating noble gases might not be very destructive. It might glow nicely. Sort of like attacking someone with a florescent light. I'd rather have the gun though, all things considered. ;)

But it's your space show.

My only problem with their use of guns is that, I don't see a lot of assault rifles, which one would think would be the weapons of choice. But I can forgive Firefly for that, because I understand the politics associated with that. The band of space pirates with Kalashnikovs shooting people dead, would make them look an aweful lot like terrorist to someone who chose to judge the show on a first appearance. And we all know how plentiful those people are.

The Old West theme works well for Joss, because it enables him to introduce relatively realistic violence on the merit of the "moral" aspect of the "Western." For an example of the alternative look at the A-team.

The Politics are simple. It's okay for the good guy to kill someone with .44 magnum, but not with an assault rifle. I didn't make the rules.

-----------
In the Dark Ages, Romano-Celtic Britannia was over-run by Viking-like cultures collectively called the Anglo-Saxons. They were led by warlords called Drytinns, and the greatest warriors among them were the Thegns.

SINGLETON

Monday, May 17, 2004 10:40 PM

While I'm sure there will be advances in chemical propellants over the next 500 years, chemical-powered slugthrowers will probably always be with us. The main reason, in the Firefly 'Verse that they'd remain popular is that the border colonies are all fairly low tech-industrial base. Cartridges are relatively cheap and easily transportable in bulk, and can be reloaded at home. Also, they're extremely reliable and easy to use, as are gunpowder firearms.
As we saw with the one hand-laser actually used in the series, those things aren't very reliable, long-lasting, and they are, frankly, ugly.
As for Vera requiring an atmosphere to operate, this isn't even true with cartridge weapons, today. The propellants we use now produce all the oxygen they need. They can be fired under water or in a vacuum.
In the 1960s, a pistol and rifle were designed for use in space. These are the Gyroject rocket pistol and rifle, both of which fired solid-fuel rockets of about .45 caliber, solid brass rockets ignited by fairly standard primers, IIRC. These were designed to be recoilless, which is the major factor in freefall or microgravity.
Another point, politically, it probably suits the Alliance to keep directed energy weapons and high tech kinetic energy weapons in Alliance hands.
Now, if I could just get some good reference for Mal's pistol and Jayne's revolver.....I wanna build my own!!!
Joe

Muscle.
Humor.
Thuggery.
Jayne.

GEEZER

Monday, May 17, 2004 10:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Singleton:
Now, if I could just get some good reference for Mal's pistol and Jayne's revolver.....I wanna build my own!!!
Joe

Muscle.
Humor.
Thuggery.
Jayne.

Jayne's gun is based on the LeMat revolver with some mods. Probably built on one of the repops from Navy Arms. http://www.navyarms.com/html/le_mat_rev.html

Mal's...? Looks like an assemblage of spare parts. Wish I could get a clear picture sometime.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

GUNHAND

Monday, May 17, 2004 10:51 PM

You can have Jayne's now. It's a Smith & Wesson Model 627 in .357 Magnum caliber.

Well you can have it for a shade under $1,200 that is. I looked at it when I was buying my latest revolver, but settled on something else.

Mal's isn't a revolver near as I can tell. It has a revolver style grip but I think it's a Franskenstein creation that the show put together for him. The workings of it look a lot like a Mauser but the barrel, grips and magazine are way off, so I have no clue what they actually used for it.

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
"Oh hey, I got an idea. Instead of us hanging
around playing art critic till I get pinched by
the Man, how's about we move away from this
eerie-ass piece of work and get on with our
increasingly eerie-ass day, how's that?"

My eerie-ass website:
http://gunhandsfirefly.homestead.com/Index.html

SINGLETON

Monday, May 17, 2004 11:25 PM

Jayne has a couple of peices I'm interested in, the main one looks like a fairly standard stainless revolver, there's something under the barrel where the lug would generally be, like a flashlight or something, but it's not a flashlight. In "Bushwhacked" he's got a small flashlight he holds next to the barrel. It's also got something odd on the top rail, looks almost saw-toothed. It's also more than a simple 6-shot cylinder, too.
Ah well, I'm sure we'll get more pics and info as the movie progresses.

Mal's gun appears to me, as you said, a "Frankenstein" creation. It's an old-style single-action revolver frame and barrel, with some kind of modified hammer. It has a cocking lever just above the grip, he uses his thumb to cock it, more than once.
It appears the cylinder is missing and some kind of rifle receiver parts were used to create a magazine-fed receiver of some kind. In "Serenity" he seems to pull a magazine out of it and check his ammo.
I guess I need to spend a weekend browsing a gun show, too look for likely candidates.
Thanks!
Joe

Muscle.
Humor.
Thuggery.
Jayne.

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