More Subtle yet interesting show observations - post yours
POSTED BY: jewelstaitefan
UPDATED: Friday, December 19, 2008 17:29
VIEWED: 34355
PAGE 11 of 13
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:Quote:
Originally posted by Lurkalot:
Bottom line is I think Firefly and Serenity are excellent
Not sure what obvious reasons you would suppose caucasians don't feel the need to grasp and revel in the concept of victimhood. Perhaps you feel the victimhood angle is the sole domain of minorities.
All of the characters had wonderful backstories which were tragically not explored due to the unfortunate cancellation.
Posts like yours force me and others to disengage from the feel-good of enjoying our show
Whereas I agree about the back stories being excellent and your related comments to that effect , the rest of your comments are just baloney! Victimhood? Did you even read my comments or just knee jerked to things you didnt like?
Every comment I made was for discussion including the problems people have in discussing race which you sadly have proved.
I am sorry this has proved too difficult to discuss because the universe we are talking about lends itself well to those discussions.
Great shows. Interesting verse. But are the fans really ready?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lurkalot:Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:Quote:
Originally posted by Lurkalot:
Bottom line is I think Firefly and Serenity are excellent
Not sure what obvious reasons you would suppose caucasians don't feel the need to grasp and revel in the concept of victimhood. Perhaps you feel the victimhood angle is the sole domain of minorities.
All of the characters had wonderful backstories which were tragically not explored due to the unfortunate cancellation.
Posts like yours force me and others to disengage from the feel-good of enjoying our show
Whereas I agree about the back stories being excellent and your related comments to that effect , the rest of your comments are just baloney! Victimhood? Did you even read my comments or just knee jerked to things you didnt like?
Every comment I made was for discussion including the problems people have in discussing race which you sadly have proved.
I am sorry this has proved too difficult to discuss because the universe we are talking about lends itself well to those discussions.
Great shows. Interesting verse. But are the fans really ready?
I read your comments, which is why my reply was directed towards your comments and not others. You may feel there are issues of race to be discussed. In this verse I cannot recall any mention, implication, suggestion of race issues, nor justification for imposing such views upon the verse. The closest I can recall were caste structure (non-racial, per se) in Canton (Jaynestown), and with the Registered Companions and their lineage/training. Similar with the Tam household.
Sexism, yes. Racism, sorry, didn't see it.
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Actually I never mentioned the term "Racism" once because I don't that the shows are racist 
If they were then I wouldn't (in every comment I have made) say that the shows are excellent.
What I was stating was that there was definitely more scope for using "coloured" characters than actually happened. I like Gina's character but as I said Early or "the believer" would have made more interesting team members than Jane (who I find very funny). Actually come to think about it Jane with Early would be fun!
Also what I was opining was that besides Gina the only other black characters were mentally limited in some ways, one possibly by psychosis the other by indoctrination.
It seems that people seem not to be able to separate the the race issue from the issue of "Racism" 
. I think that in the UK this distinction is recognised. In one very big country I can think of at the moment, they definitely have a problem with these types of distinctions. 
Saying that on an admittedly limited run there was more scope for coloured characters does not mean that the show was racist!
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I lent one of my two copies of Firefly to my Councilor at the Veterans Affairs after my last meeting with her and a Psychologist who is a huge fan of Firefly. Yesterday I went for a brief walk during one of my break periods and on the way back to my work area I saw my Councilor and we began discussing the show. My Councilor said that she was about half way through the series and was really getting into the show after getting used to the characters, and then she asked me if I were in a hurry to get the DVDs back, because the Doctor who is a fan of Firefly is also her Boss, and he said to her that the first episode which I think he was referring to Serenity has incredible insight on Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. (PTSD) My Councilor said to me that he said he would like to discuss this issue with her, and then I think she said that he told her he was thinking of making all of the Doctors and Councilors at the V.A watch that episode so it could be studied and discussed. I won’t say where this V.A. is because I don’t want to get anyone in trouble especially myself, but I will say that I think I’ve let people know where I live before and the V.A. where I work is the National Center for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I watched the fourth DVD Yesterday and am going back to work tomorrow to cover my coworker so I think that I will watch Serenity then and try to discover what the Doctor at the V.A. was talking about.
http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html
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he said to her that the first episode which I think he was referring to Serenity has incredible insight on Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. (PTSD) My Councilor said to me that he said he would like to discuss this issue with her, and then I think she said that he told her he was thinking of making all of the Doctors and Councilors at the V.A watch that episode so it could be studied and discussed.
Will you come back and tell us what they said? I'm getting my Master's in Social Work with a focus in PTSD and disaster recovery, and so I would be VERY interested! Thanks!
And getting back to the topic of the thread, I don't know if someone pointed this out already, but... So Saffron has a poison or somethin' mixed into her gloss so that when she kisses people, they're knocked out, you know, the Goodnight Kiss, I think it was. How come she doesn't poison herself with it? Even when one has lip gloss on, it's still hard not to lick one's lips anyway, I think it's even unconscious. So she would have licked it herself, and would have knocked herself out.
I know that it wouldn't have helped the story, but still.
"Your mouth is talking. You might want to look into that."
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From Rallem post:
"...he said to her that the first episode which I think he was referring to Serenity has incredible insight on Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. (PTSD) My Councilor said to me that he said he would like to discuss this issue with her, and then I think she said that he told her he was thinking of making all of the Doctors and Councilors at the V.A watch that episode so it could be studied and discussed..."
Will you come back and tell us what they said? I'm getting my Master's in Social Work with a focus in PTSD and disaster recovery, and so I would be VERY interested! Thanks!
And getting back to the topic of the thread, I don't know if someone pointed this out already, but... So Saffron has a poison or somethin' mixed into her gloss so that when she kisses people, they're knocked out, you know, the Goodnight Kiss, I think it was. How come she doesn't poison herself with it? Even when one has lip gloss on, it's still hard not to lick one's lips anyway, I think it's even unconscious. So she would have licked it herself, and would have knocked herself out.
I know that it wouldn't have helped the story, but still.
"Your mouth is talking. You might want to look into that."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lurkalot:
Also what I was opining was that besides Gina the only other black characters were mentally limited in some ways, one possibly by psychosis the other by indoctrination.
B]
You mentioned that besides Gina the only two other characters of color were mentally limited in some way, with one being by a possible psychosis and the other by indoctrination, and I have to agree and disagree with you here. With Jubal Early I think it was clear that he was limited with a psychosis, but I think it was also that psychosis which helped enable him in a similar way that River’s helps her. With Shepard Book I don’t believe that he was mentally limited by his indoctrination in any way out of the ordinary, and he may have physically limited, but if so that was his choice.
I was thinking about the show Gilligan’s Island where the entire basis of the show was that each of the seven characters was a representation of one of the seven deadly sins, and I am trying to understand if there is any similar concept for the characters of Firefly. I think that if there is it will be entirely unintentional by Joss though because in the extras of the fourth DVD I believe Joss said that he was originally going to have five characters living on Serenity but then later on decided to up that number to nine because of lessons learned from Angel.
http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShinySahara:
From Rallem post:
"...he said to her that the first episode which I think he was referring to Serenity has incredible insight on Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. (PTSD) My Councilor said to me that he said he would like to discuss this issue with her, and then I think she said that he told her he was thinking of making all of the Doctors and Councilors at the V.A watch that episode so it could be studied and discussed..."
Will you come back and tell us what they said? I'm getting my Master's in Social Work with a focus in PTSD and disaster recovery, and so I would be VERY interested! Thanks!
And getting back to the topic of the thread, I don't know if someone pointed this out already, but... So Saffron has a poison or somethin' mixed into her gloss so that when she kisses people, they're knocked out, you know, the Goodnight Kiss, I think it was. How come she doesn't poison herself with it? Even when one has lip gloss on, it's still hard not to lick one's lips anyway, I think it's even unconscious. So she would have licked it herself, and would have knocked herself out.
I know that it wouldn't have helped the story, but still.
"Your mouth is talking. You might want to look into that."
Could the answer be revealed in the movie "The Princess Bride," where Westley put the poison in both drinks and drank his with the Italian and lived because he became largely immune to that poison through limited exposure?
http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html
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Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:
You mentioned that besides Gina the only two other characters of color were mentally limited in some way, with one being by a possible psychosis and the other by indoctrination, and I have to agree and disagree with you here. With Jubal Early I think it was clear that he was limited with a psychosis, but I think it was also that psychosis which helped enable him in a similar way that River’s helps her. With Shepard Book I don’t believe that he was mentally limited by his indoctrination in any way out of the ordinary, and he may have physically limited, but if so that was his choice.
You know for some reason I keep ignoring Shephard Book. He is/was a potentially great character now deceased. Which kind of brings me back to where I was
I think the term "enable him" is correct but maybe not in the way you are thinking. I kind of think of Early and the Believer were both agents of the system. Maybe I am over thinking this
The W brothers deliberately made their agents in the Matrix white and many of the inhabitants of Zion as coloured. Don't know where that came from and is probably totally irrelevant.
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I think Book may have been the potentially most explosive and dynamic character on the show because he was who he said he was and so much more. I was not too disapointed with his loss in Serenity because he had so much of a mysterious past that even dead Ron Glass could be back to do lots of background episodes if they ever were made. I was thinking besides Zoey, the only two other characters of color in this series were Shepard Book and Jubal Early, and when Jubal showed up he was the only person to know that Shapard Book wasn't a shepard. Was it his psychosis which gave him this knowledge, (which I doubt) or did the two have past dealings with each other?
http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html
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