Earth That Was...Is a Mystery...
POSTED BY: firefly151
UPDATED: Friday, September 5, 2008 17:00
VIEWED: 5354
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This topic is so interesting to me. What really intresets me is the idea of the people left behind, because how this world works you know there were people left behind. My question is would it ever be possible for our BDHs to return to earth-that-was? is it that far away? Is it possible that travel has sped up since colonization to make it a possible but very dangerous journey?
Tah
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Really, Citizen? That's interesting; I wasn't aware that Joss had specifically stated that the Alliance (or it's ancestral form) hadn't lost a war. Obviously, this knocks that part of my theories into a cocked hat. May I ask your source on this?
However, since it's been stated that no alien life forms have been found in the Firefly universe (so far) I have to dispute your idea of natually habitable worlds pre-existing the fleet's arrival. Oxygen tends to bind to other elements; the only way enough there could be enough atmospheric O2 to be breathable is for an ecology (specifically, photosynthesis-using plants) to be in place.
Of course, if all Joss meant was no intelligent alien life, that argument goes out the window too. . .
"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn
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Quote:Joss has never mentioned a war at all to my knowledge, he has given us a reason for the exodus, and no war was mentioned though. I think you're playing rather arbitrarily with what can and can not be taken as gospel from the show. The reason for leaving was given as over population, lack of resources and pollution, but that doesn't fit your theory, so you wave an Alliance lie into being. It's not down to me to disprove your suggestion, it's up to you to prove it, and for me saying "I want to believe this, so obviously anything that contradicts that is a lie" doesn't quite cut it for me.
Originally posted by RocketJock:
Really, Citizen? That's interesting; I wasn't aware that Joss had specifically stated that the Alliance (or it's ancestral form) hadn't lost a war. Obviously, this knocks that part of my theories into a cocked hat. May I ask your source on this?
Quote:
However, since it's been stated that no alien life forms have been found in the Firefly universe (so far) I have to dispute your idea of natually habitable worlds pre-existing the fleet's arrival. Oxygen tends to bind to other elements; the only way enough there could be enough atmospheric O2 to be breathable is for an ecology (specifically, photosynthesis-using plants) to be in place.
I rather doubt Joss would have thought about it that deeply, in fact I know he didn't. I also know, from his own words, that when he said no aliens, he meant little green men. Of course that doesn't prove there was plant life, but I'm not even trying to make that argument, I'm merely saying that it makes little sense to go find another system without any planets you can be sure of colonising.
Of course another explanation is that the planets were terraformed remotely, prior to leaving the Solar System, thereby being the reason for the creation of, and the testing ground for the terraforming technology.
I'd note that some dialogue from the show is interesting in any case. Mentions of 'all terraformed worlds having their quirks' could indicate not all worlds are terraformed.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
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Citizen, of course we're just playing with the mysteries of the Whedon's verse here.
We don't know very much for certain, but it's just nice to ..hypothesise... what the truths might be. It's just theories, and that's what I expected and hoped for when I started this thread.
Keep Writing, Keep Flying
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Hmm. Citizen, if my previous post seemed snarky, I apologize. I didn't mean to raise hackles, nor to cherry-pick from Joss's statements. And as I stated, if Joss said, in so many words, that war was not a part of the reason the proto-alliance left earth, then, as I said, that part of my scenario is obviously wrong. I'm just curious about where he said that.
With that out of the way, let's get back to the original question of what was left behind on Earth-That-Was.
In my "war" scenario, I assumed a repair-capable ecosystem with pre-existing terraformation tech; in this case,or something similar, Earth-That-Was is probably getting along fine, happy that they've thrown the troublemakers out. Different assumptions would, of course, lead to different results.
It's possible, for example, that the solar planets were never terraformed successfully. Even if that obtains, though, we can assume that not every human alive in the solar system joined the exodus -- the fact that there was a population problem on Earth implies a lot more people than any size fleet could carry -- and given a technology capable of interstellar flight in the first place, it's likely Sol system had some degree of off-Earth population as well. So it's certainly possible humans still survive in the home system.
As for going back there, well, Joss has specifically ruled out FTL travel in the Firefly 'Verse, and heck, it's his playground, so that's out. We don't know how close to the speed of light 'Verse style drives can get though; if someone could get very close to "C", the trip would seem short to him/her, though it would still take decades at either end. (Incidentally, that means the exodus fleet might have covered multiple light centuries while experiencing only a generation or two of shipboard time -- the 'Verse doesn't necessarily need to be close to Sol system, in other words. But I digress. . . again. . . )
"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn
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Quote:
Originally posted by firefly151:
Citizen, of course we're just playing with the mysteries of the Whedon's verse here.
We don't know very much for certain, but it's just nice to ..hypothesise... what the truths might be. It's just theories, and that's what I expected and hoped for when I started this thread.
I never said otherwise, but I just think there needs to be more evidence or at least argument to support the hypothesis.
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No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
Hmm. Citizen, if my previous post seemed snarky, I apologize. I didn't mean to raise hackles, nor to cherry-pick from Joss's statements.
No? I just think you need to make a better argument for it is what I meant.
Quote:There's likely a limit to the terraforming process. I imagine you can extend the habitable zone of any given star, but not indefinitely, and so some bodies are going to be simply to hot or too cold to work with. I'd suggest most of the worlds of the Solar System fall into this category, with maybe only Mars and Venus being acceptable. Maybe the original terraforming technology was only capable of dealing with worlds that were essentially Earth-like? After the core planets were dealt with they could then have improved it.
It's possible, for example, that the solar planets were never terraformed successfully. Even if that obtains, though, we can assume that not every human alive in the solar system joined the exodus -- the fact that there was a population problem on Earth implies a lot more people than any size fleet could carry -- and given a technology capable of interstellar flight in the first place, it's likely Sol system had some degree of off-Earth population as well. So it's certainly possible humans still survive in the home system.
We don't know how big the fleet was, how many could live on ship, or how many fleets left Earth. Perhaps more than one extra-solar system has been colonised?
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I think the limits on the terraformation process must be pretty broad, judging by the number of successfully t-formed planets/moons in the 'Verse. (In a deleted scene from "Our Mrs. Reynolds" Mal speaks of "More than seventy Earths spinning"; and River's teacher speaks of the "new solar system" (note singular) containing "dozens of planets and hundreds of moons".) That, and the relatively short time-frame are, I think, good arguments for T-formation being a mature technology. Of course, the learning process might have screwed up a good portion of Sol System before they learned the ropes. . .
I agree with you that they didn't pick the target system by accident; whether there were already habitable worlds or not, they probably knew that the system was insanely ripe with terraformable planets/moons.
"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn
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Quick question/observation:
What about the presence of indentured servants/conscripted military?
It is known that the slave trade is fairly well mentioned and shown in the BDS. Why not sent the owned help to get things started before the monied folks arrive? And what about homesteads? Sure would be nice to send settlements of folks first to make the land workable and productive so an income base could be established before arriving. Besides, why not have the lower class serve as test subjects for the atmosphere before establishing higher class settlements? These things happened quite often during the American push west. Large ranches swollowed up smaller homesteads in the name of profit (strangely the reverse is happening presently).
IMHO the 1% is no different than many governments and I can see them working together to establish worlds for profit.
Oh, and I like the idea of a war being the reason for the run from Earth That Was. It is not stated but in a way it does make sense. But then again so does an over crowded Earth.
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