Did Joss paint himself into a corner with Serenity?

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Monday, September 1, 2008 22:55
VIEWED: 28681
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SMAUG

Monday, August 25, 2008 5:11 PM

Just to comment on a few of the ideas being discussed in this thread.

As much as I didn't want any of the characters to be killed off, tradjedy is a part of life. And greif and pain can expand your soul in ways that nothing else can.

Just look at this thread as an example. This many years later people are still talking about the death of Wash and Book. What are some of the most intense memories of stories/movies that you saw when you were a child? I would be willing to bet that a good deal of them had some kind of tradgedy in them.

Life isn't a Disney story where all your dreams come true. As a matter of fact, a lot of the public domain stories that Disney built it's empire on.. didn't orginally end happily. The little mermaid was turned into sea foam at the end of the orginal story. And so on..

But anyway.. yes, it has been argued about the tension and uncertainty that was added to the story when those events happend. The Holy-(#*&$-he-just-killed-Wash-is-everyone-going-to-die feeling that suddenly you had at the end.

If characters keep going through dangerous situations time and time again and no body every gets killed, or seriously injured (except a red-shirt), then there is never a true sense of danger. Granted, even if it's "realistic", most people don't want to see a major character die a sensless accidental death. I don't think too many people would be happy if Kalyee died doing a routine spacewalk repair on the ship because her spacesuit failed. But if a character is killed either as a sacrafice or in the midst of a dangerous event, that tradjedy grabs you in a way that continous "happily every after" never will.

But I don't think Joss painted himself into a corner at all.. if anything he set himself up beautifully for more movies. There are probably at least another 6 seasons of stories left even AFTER Serenity. There would have been more if 2-3 seasons of shows wouldn't have had to of been compressed into a 2 hour movie. But, what worked great on a tv series, which was a 9 person crew.. didn't work as well in a movie.

Let's face it.. you simply can't focus very much on 9 main characters in one two hour movie. This was basically a movie about Mal and River. Everyone else was just kind of along for the ride. Especially Book and Inara really got the shaft in this movie.

But now.. with a smaller crew.. and River, who makes perfect sense that she would be able to take over the pioleting duties of Wash, leaves a leaner crew to focus on and continue the story in future movies.

I would argue that Joss knew exactly what he was doing! Not only for this movie.. but hopefully for the next.. and the next...

SLOWHAND

Monday, August 25, 2008 5:24 PM

Well, I agree that death is a part of life. Who wouldn't. But entertainment shouldn't try to imitate life so closley, in my opinion. Heck, if you want that, watch reality TV.

I understand the feeling he was going for, by making us wonder if the others were gonna be killed too. But I just don't think that's nessisary. Sure, by not killing the main characters, there's no real sense of danger. But danger isn't the only feeling I get from entertainment. Take War Stories for example. I knew Mal wasn't gonna be killed by Niska. I knew he'd be safe back on the ship before the episode was over. But, the show had my full attention because I was wondering HOW is he gonna get out of this.

But anyway, this is just my opinion. I just don't know if I could get into another Serenity movie without all 9 characters. I always said when I would describe the show that ALL of the characters were so thought out and important. It just wouldn't be the same without them all together.

I use entertainment to escape the trageties of life. I don't want my entertainment to pull me back into the reality I'm trying to forget for a while.

HUGHFF

Monday, August 25, 2008 9:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TuJiaoZuo:

Even though we're talking about SciFi and let's face it, cloning has been done many times in SciFi (the first reason why I doubt Joss wouldn't visit it), cloning has been found to be something entirely different than what we all think. Just because another being is created from a copy of someone's genetic code, doesn't mean the copy will be exactly like the original. Often there can be physical and personality differences making the copy it's own unique self. They could clone Wash, but it may not look nor act like Wash, Clone!Wash could be six inches taller with green eyes and a distaste for Hawaiian shirts and dinosaurs (as well as the quiet type even).

Actually, not quite. A clone of Wash would look pretty much exactly the same as Wash, no green eyes, no taller. Clones have existed in nature since the beginning of life, in fact. At present, at the school where I teach, there are at least two sets of "clones." Naturally occurring clones are called IDENTICAL TWINS. A clone shares the exact same genetic makeup as its original, just like an identical twin. So you could clone Wash, but he would be born as a baby after 9 months gestation etc. The clone Wash would be physically different from the original Wash because he would be 30 years younger(!) and any environmental factors that affected his physical stature (eg, if he was enrolled in a heavy gym program) would also change his body shape. Similarly, his personality, while partly determined by his genes (clone Wash would be gregarious too) is also strongly determined by his experience (he may not be such a pasificist.) Of course all this is moot because he would be 30 YEARS YOUNGER. Forget cloning.

Quote:
Originally posted by TuJiaoZuo:

What Serenity lacks is the texture of Firefly. Firefly had so many precious moments; the crew having dinner together, playing cards, Inara and Kaylee having their girl time, Jayne picking on Simon, Wash and Zoe as a couple, even River and Kaylee running around and playing. So much was in the show that helped shape it into the realism that Joss strived for. It's what balanced the dark and it's what the movie lacked. There was no heavy vein of a unconventional family, a theme heavily present in the series. I know that there was no way to show it since the movie had the crew fractured and ready to part ways, but that made the movie hard to swallow is that we didn't see what made them pull away, we didn't see Book go or Inara leave (and the comics don't give that justice because it's such an intregal bridge from the show to the movie). The movie had the plot, it had the action and the drama, but it completely lacked the texture and the intimate moments of the universe of Firefly, that's what's wrong with Serenity. Not the deaths.

Absolutely correct. Exactly what I have said from the begining -and very well put too, sir. That's why I'm not all that fussed about seeing Serenity 2 but I would pay a fortune for Firefly 2.

www.cpfc.org - my life

SMAUG

Monday, August 25, 2008 9:41 PM

Quote:
It just wouldn't be the same without them all together.

Of course it wouldn't be the same... but still doesn't mean it won't be great!

RALLEM

Monday, August 25, 2008 9:42 PM

This is something I've thought about with the characters. Is it possible that the Operative from Serenity might be significant to the crew of Serenity again when he comes looking for help for some noble cause which happens to either be very close to something they were already doing or maybe something the crew is passionate about, and in turn the Operative offers some help in figuring out Shepard Book's colorful past, as well as payment?

http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

NBZ

Monday, August 25, 2008 10:00 PM

You're assuming they want to know about his past = They do not believe what he told them.

I'd hate to see any sort of "teaming up" with an enemy.

RALLEM

Monday, August 25, 2008 10:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
You're assuming they want to know about his past = They do not believe what he told them.

I'd hate to see any sort of "teaming up" with an enemy.

It doesn't have to be teaming up of old enemies, because there probably would be some drama involved, wondering if he will betray them or if his stated goals were real, but even then why wouldn't you want to see them team up with an old enemy? I would think the crew of Serenity would want to know the Shepard's history after they asked him so many times to explain how a shepard knew so much about crime, but even if that wasn't good enough I would think there could be a plot point which could make the knowledge about Book's past vital.

http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

BROWNCOAT1300

Tuesday, August 26, 2008 1:11 PM

I can see other movies in the future but I am sad to say that I dont see them doing anything further with the series.
I think that there is enough unknown plot for them to maybe do some off-shoots but I just dont see it.
I wish I could see it but I cant.

SHINY

WASHNWEAR

Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Quote:
I'm not entertained by having fictional characters (that I've been led to be emotionally invested in) killed off as a form of audience manipulation.
All entertainment is audience manipulation. You appear to feeling bitter that this particular manipulation was a sad one, rather than a show coaxing you into some happy fantasyland for two hours. Which is understandable, if you went into Serenity thinking it was the Little Mermaid. (Why would anyone think that?)

If Wash's death bugs you too much, watch Alan Tudyk on Dodge Ball or something to assure yourself that no one actually died. Or write some fanfic about Wash, so the character can still be alive for you. See? It's all good.

Gee, Swish - condescend much? Yeah, let's all watch Alan Tudyk in Dodge Ball, 'cause that's EXACTLY like watching Alan Tudyk in Firefly/Serenity, and in any case my grasp of reality is so thin that I think Alan and Wash and Pirate X (been a while since I watched Dodge Ball) are all one and the same. But thanks for helping clear up one thing: I went into Iron Man thinking it was The Little Mermaid, and now I understand my confusion (though if I squint my eyes down pretty good, Gwyneth Paltrow looks amazingly like Alan...)

It was like my 3rd-grade social studies teacher was alive and well when we got here!

NCBROWNCOAT

Tuesday, August 26, 2008 4:47 PM

Then watch Alan on CSI from last year. He gave me the creeps as a pedophile who let a little boy die. Definately not warm and fuzzy, but the mark of a good actor.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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