Did Joss paint himself into a corner with Serenity?
POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Monday, September 1, 2008 22:55
VIEWED: 28681
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I suppose you need to clarify you definition of the word entertainment. In my opinion Shakespeare is entertainment, but also painfully real. Should we rewrite his plays to excise any deaths you don't care for?
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Quote:The month after my Mom died from cancer, I went to see a movie titled Bright Lights, Big City, in which Michael J. Fox's Mom dies from same. Yeah, it hit REAL close to home, but the story it told was powerful, and I even found it somewhat cathartic, much like I did the Buffy ep The Body.
Originally posted by pennausamike:
And was the death of your parents entertainment?
I see nothing wrong with a creator making creative decisions about his characters, even to the point of removing them to spell out that life ain't always guaranteed.
Jossisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I suppose you need to clarify you definition of the word entertainment. In my opinion Shakespeare is entertainment, but also painfully real. Should we rewrite his plays to excise any deaths you don't care for?
But please keep in mind that I acknowledge that my bias runs to the fact that I like my entertainment to be FUN and I expect life to be tempered by MISERY, so when entertainment is tempered by MISERY it becomes a reflection of life and ceases to be entertainment. Good entertainment resonates of real life without getting sucked into dwelling on real life drawbacks.
That is my definition, so I admit I don't look to tragedy for entertainment.
Shakespeare is not in the same vein as Firefly as entertainment.
I don't care for Serenity becoming a tragedy, when Firefly was NOT.
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Quote:And what I like about Joss is that he goes beyond entertainment, doesn't present hollow fake idealizations of life.
Originally posted by pennausamike:
I look to fiction as entertainment. If I want unhappy endings, all I gotta do is wake up! But please keep in mind that I acknowledge that my bias runs to the fact that I like my entertainment to be FUN and I expect life to be tempered by MISERY, so when entertainment is tempered by MISERY it becomes a reflection of life and ceases to be entertainment.
Quote:You seem to be laying down a rule where maybe you have no right. When you write your own show, you can take your audience into fantasy land by making everything perfect and safe and happy. Joss chooses differently. Speaking for myself, I must say: Thank god he does!
Good entertainment resonates of real life without getting sucked into dwelling on real life drawbacks.
Quote:All entertainment is audience manipulation. You appear to feeling bitter that this particular manipulation was a sad one, rather than a show coaxing you into some happy fantasyland for two hours. Which is understandable, if you went into Serenity thinking it was the Little Mermaid. (Why would anyone think that?)
I'm not entertained by having fictional characters (that I've been led to be emotionally invested in) killed off as a form of audience manipulation.
If Wash's death bugs you too much, watch Alan Tudyk on Dodge Ball or something to assure yourself that no one actually died. Or write some fanfic about Wash, so the character can still be alive for you. See? It's all good.
Quote:MANY would disagree with you. I do! I thought Wash's death added a lot. The whole end of the movie was very scary just because anyone was fair game. The death also made this fantasy world more believable (to me) because death can be, and most often is, meaningless. When every death in a show is played out like the Shepherd's, all carefully played out to have a well defined effect on the plot, I start to see nothing but the hand of the writer. The fantasy is ruined for me.
I understand the idea of killing characters for dramatic effect, but my whole point is that at no point is the show (or a Serenity sequel) made better by the loss of Wash as compared to what that character brings to the table dramatically.
Quote:And there is no REAL happy family bonding in the Brady Bunch either, just actors faking something that does not exist. And no REAL magical joyous wedding at the end of the Little Mermaid. Ariel didn't HAVE to get her man, cause she's not real, so what's the point?
If we "had" to kill off a fictional character I would agree with this reasoning but we don't "have to" kill off anybody. Its a work of fiction. There is no REAL peril in any of it.
You see what I'm saying?
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If I want light and fluffy entertainment all the time I'd only read romance novels and watch ABC Family.
Granted there are times that that's what I want, then there are others when I want to be challenged and reminded that real life is messy, sometimes tragic and everything can't be wrapped up neatly in 60 minutes or 2 hours with a happy ending for everyone.
For me, Firefly and Serenity came about the time my Mom's health was getting worse in early 2006. Her cancer had come back and she was enduring radiation therapy and then a fall last January that broke her hip followed by a downward spiral in health culminating in her death this May.
Mal and the crew's journey (along with countless friends I have made at this board and other boards) helped to keep me going. It taught me that matter how bad things got you just held, held until some semblance of a plan evolved. Usually Plan A went south, just like for the crew, but Plans B,C and D and so on succeeded in some form and you coped with it.
Back to the topic. We have what Joss gave us. Book and Wash dead. Zoe grieving, River half way sane and Mal and Inara not quite sure where they are going. Simon and Kaylee together (at least for the moment) and Jayne, well I think Jayne has changed a bit too. But plenty of stories to be told.
http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/
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Firefly was never a fairytale.
The series has its dark moments with death, torture and more death.
The series, while fun, was less about fun and more about surviving misery. About people who lose everything (including hope?) and still march on.
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Sorry to here about your Mom ncbrowncoat.
And I liked what you said about dealing with what Joss left us with. He himself admits during the Aussie Q&A that the verse dramatically changes after Miranda and that's just the way it is, but it does move the story forward and I'd like a little more movement in the form of a sequel.
And I don't think anyone can anticipate what these characters will do in the future, i.e. Inara's professional conflict, Simon's and Kaylee's sex commitment, River's saneness and piloting, etc...never say never.
It’s really all up to Joss who absolutely DID NOT write himself into a corner.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
Sorry to here about your Mom ncbrowncoat.
And I liked what you said about dealing with what Joss left us with. He himself admits during the Aussie Q&A that the verse dramatically changes after Miranda and that's just the way it is, but it does move the story forward and I'd like a little more movement in the form of a sequel.
And I don't think anyone can anticipate what these characters will do in the future, i.e. Inara's professional conflict, Simon's and Kaylee's sex commitment, River's saneness and piloting, etc...never say never.
It’s really all up to Joss who absolutely DID NOT write himself into a corner.
Thanks and Amen!
http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/
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I don't think so. Wasn't it stated somewhere that all of the events in Serenity would have happened in a "Firefly Season 2" ?
Even if the events of Serenity wouldn't have happened, the characters would have grown and series changing events would have happened regardless. Firefly would have been a terrible show if it remained the same every episode, constantly resetting it's characters. Clearly from season 1 the series didn't do this - it's characters had such depth and in such a short time grew so very much. The plots grew too. So, I think the answer is no. The series grew. Serenity was part of that growth. Either way change was 'acommin. Enjoy the Firefly universe as it continues to grow, as it would have had it remained on television, otherwise you're living in the past.
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Quote:Yep.
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
If I want light and fluffy entertainment all the time I'd only read romance novels and watch ABC Family.
All my best to you, man.
Beenthereisall
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