Aliens and technobabble-

POSTED BY: SevenPercent
UPDATED: Friday, May 14, 2004 03:48
VIEWED: 6750
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CYBERSNARK

Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
I have trouble thinking of any STTNG thaqt even comes close to this (but there is a beautiful DS9 in which the file clerk at an extermination camp undergoes surgery to look like the overlord at that camp in order to die to pay for his whole race's crimes- awesome story)-

And in which the only person who shed a tear at his death was a Bajoran --one of the people "he'd" been accused of abusing. Beautifully crafted.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

GHOULMAN

Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:49 PM

SevenPercent you are really seeing the Matrix. Nicely done.

Yet, you still call yourself a rambler. Hey, you have hit upon the truth of the literature you're talking about with sagasity and intellegence. You are completely right regarding Wells social leanings as well as the nature of P.K. Dicks "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep". Well done brother!

Of course, the worst thing about Sci-Fi is juuuuust out of your understanding. That is; I'm of the opinion that Hollywoodland has commited itself to creating 'schlock' Sci-Fi (SQ-1, B5, Star Trek rehashes). You know, if this is the main reason Hollywoodland makes Sci-Fi then actual genre fans will only get that. No Firefly!

No real Sci-Fi.

ORANGERFUL

Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:36 PM

I agree with what you've said SevenPercent, now my turn to babble!

*steps on babble-box*

The thing that really drew me into Firefly was Joss' approach that "hey, maybe we ARE alone in the 'verse". I had grown up in a Star Trek/Star Wars family, so I always just taken it for granted that there were aliens out there. When I saw Firefly, being a bit older and I guess a bit more cynical than when I was a kid watchin Star Trek, the idea that this was it, and that humans were just going to have to deal with each other forever, and that they probably would continue to deal with each other the same way they always have felt right. That's why the whole western side worked for me. If we started exploring and living in the "final frontier", we'd do it like cowboys, and not like ambassadors.

The best episodes of any sci-fi series are the ones that do address real issues. And nowadays it takes a lot of guts to do that, maybe more so because of the networks vetoing your show (I heard there was an AIDS episode of ST:TNG in the works and the network said no way, they didn't get to produce an AIDS themed show until Enterprise, and by then, no one was watching save for the die-hards in denial).

The only thing I disagree with is your final statement, saying that people have forgotten what good storytelling is when it comes to sci-fi. I refuse to believe that. I think that Hollywood has forgotten that stories make the movies. People will see movies if the story touches them, sci-fi or not. Lord of the Rings has drawn in a whole new crowd, because people watched the movie and felt the weight of the story. It's Hollywood who needs to learn that splashy effects mean nothing, if you don't have a story and characters that connect with the audience, because the audience is waiting patiently, seeing the crappy movies in the hopes that one will turn out okay.

*steps down from babble-box, trips, and falls flat on her face*

GUNRUNNER

Thursday, May 13, 2004 6:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
The absolute best episode ever of the original ST (as far as this thread is concerned, in my opinion) was the one with the black/white face guys (dont remember the ep. title)- It made two aliens mimic Earth's race problems, built great characters, and got the point across about what racism and hate do- I have trouble thinking of any STTNG thaqt even comes close to this (but there is a beautiful DS9 in which the file clerk at an extermination camp undergoes surgery to look like the overlord at that camp in order to die to pay for his whole race's crimes- awesome story

The TOS episode was Let This Be Your Last Battlefield and the DS9 one was Duet. I love that powerful moment at the end of Duet when Maj. Kira tell the Bajoran that kill the filing clerk that he wasn't Gul Darhe'el and the man responds "He was a Cardassian". Powerful stuff.

The Firefly CCG Web Site:
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Bllm119/firefly_ccg_web_site.htm
My Other Site:
http://www.geocities.com/billds9/

TRACER

Thursday, May 13, 2004 7:33 PM

heh, well said sevenpercent

but alas, i have to say the majority of star trek kind of stank. has to be my pet hate :( its just with every iteration with the star trek looniverse you have something even more whacked out than the last. i'm sorry if i'm breaking a load of spock plates with this but i just find it so urgh, star trek just grows exponentially with the tech ideas they adopt, from the first series it was just a warp drive which did some fancy lights. OK so maybe The original and The Next generation won't be going in room 101.

Well maybe most of the eps on TNG where Q made his annoying appearance.. one thing i missed from TNG was the fact Pichard didn't try and flaunt himself with 97% of the female population of the ship...that was Worf's job

but on the flip side, the technobabble makes the Fiction more belivable to the fans, i guess people don't want to hear "that flashy thingy on the spinny thingy has gone" even i would raise an eyebrow, not like i'd get all hot over a compression coil, maybe Kaylee tho.

OK the Aliens, in some sci-fi shows Aliens can add flavour with others it kind of beats it to death with a messy stick the differences between the two?

A well presented alien race is good, excessive alien races gets almost comical,poorly thought out alien races

but on most shows you can see which shows will adopt the we are not alone factor, Firefly strayed away from the alien 'element' (for a time being) as you can figure Joss probably wanted to show 'the people' of the time and dwell like that, else he wouldn't have bothered with people speaking chinese, could've been "flingon" and i dunno people would be wearing Pasties on their foreheads....could anyone see a "verse" like that?

Its all about measures at the end of the day too much spoils it, too little makes it weak. you know when you've got it right.

Michael Dorn is a Pastie God

BADGERSHAT

Thursday, May 13, 2004 7:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tracer:
heh, well said sevenpercent

but alas, i have to say the majority of star trek kind of stank. has to be my pet hate :( its just with every iteration with the star trek looniverse you have something even more whacked out than the last. i'm sorry if i'm breaking a load of spock plates with this but i just find it so urgh, star trek just grows exponentially with the tech ideas they adopt, from the first series it was just a warp drive which did some fancy lights. OK so maybe The original and The Next generation won't be going in room 101.

Well maybe most of the eps on TNG where Q made his annoying appearance.. one thing i missed from TNG was the fact Pichard didn't try and flaunt himself with 97% of the female population of the ship...that was Worf's job

but on the flip side, the technobabble makes the Fiction more belivable to the fans, i guess people don't want to hear "that flashy thingy on the spinny thingy has gone" even i would raise an eyebrow, not like i'd get all hot over a compression coil, maybe Kaylee tho.

OK the Aliens, in some sci-fi shows Aliens can add flavour with others it kind of beats it to death with a messy stick the differences between the two?

A well presented alien race is good, excessive alien races gets almost comical,poorly thought out alien races

but on most shows you can see which shows will adopt the we are not alone factor, Firefly strayed away from the alien 'element' (for a time being) as you can figure Joss probably wanted to show 'the people' of the time and dwell like that, else he wouldn't have bothered with people speaking chinese, could've been "flingon" and i dunno people would be wearing Pasties on their foreheads....could anyone see a "verse" like that?

Its all about measures at the end of the day too much spoils it, too little makes it weak. you know when you've got it right.

Michael Dorn is a Pastie God

... ummm... I think either, you typed slower than you though, or you think the way my sister flips channels...

Either way, I'm more or less thinking I can sorta follow you here... basically, you're not too huge a Star Trek fan, right?

I can see that. I grew up with it, and love it, but if I can step away from my childhood memories of it, TOS is REALLY cheesey, and the first 2 seasons of TNG are no better. But, they DID tackle some interesting issues at times, just from an alien point of view, which tends to weaken the human element a bit.

Star Trek, for all its flaws, gave us something new at least. Let's just hope that there's never an incident of Simon directly Mal and Kaylee on how to operate on his brain...

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

TRACER

Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BadgersHat:
... ummm... I think either, you typed slower than you though, or you think the way my sister flips channels...

Either way, I'm more or less thinking I can sorta follow you here... basically, you're not too huge a Star Trek fan, right?

I can see that. I grew up with it, and love it, but if I can step away from my childhood memories of it, TOS is REALLY cheesey, and the first 2 seasons of TNG are no better. But, they DID tackle some interesting issues at times, just from an alien point of view, which tends to weaken the human element a bit.

Star Trek, for all its flaws, gave us something new at least. Let's just hope that there's never an incident of Simon directly Mal and Kaylee on how to operate on his brain...

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

well i hate splitting hairs and one arguement for star trek would be that if it wasn't for star trek none of the genuinely great stuff would get made... but in contrast you also create a lot of cheap rip offs.

despite its totally annoying and cheesey-ness star trek was a good show and maybe some of TNG. my dad would

me for even thinking it was bad, but i sometimes sit there picking faults and crying at Michael Dorn's Cheese and Onion acting.

There is so much to say it really is just so tangled together. like the ever growing can of worms over the "new" star wars films.

its a love hate thing with me, i just love firefly tho.

Michael Dorn still the pastie master

BADGERSHAT

Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:13 PM

See, the problem with Michael Dorn is, he's got the commanding resonant voice of a Shakespearian-trained actor, but plays it too strong.

Also, when he's up against an ACTUAL Shaksepearian actor (as in, Patrick Stewart), it just shows the flaws more profoundly (like watching a crappy old VHS tape on a plasma-screen TV...)

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

TRACER

Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BadgersHat:
See, the problem with Michael Dorn is, he's got the commanding resonant voice of a Shakespearian-trained actor, but plays it too strong.

Also, when he's up against an ACTUAL Shaksepearian actor (as in, Patrick Stewart), it just shows the flaws more profoundly (like watching a crappy old VHS tape on a plasma-screen TV...)

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

Ditch the vhs :p
i just think pichard could have some more balls so to speak, if i was upstaged by data i'd just try a good old fashioned slap.
and well worf just seems so damn frustrated why doesn't he just ask for a chicken and leak pastie. might want to give him a better set of lines or at least tone it down a little.

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:33 PM

While I'm a fan of the storyline-having sci-fi, I think it is a mistake to assume that sci-fi was never about the technobabble. The original Star Trek was as technobabble as anything today. The times have changed though, and much of what was once technobabble in OST has either because absurd or mainstream. For instance, at the time, the word 'computer' was somewhat technobabble. I remember when Kirk ordered a "portable Computer" to be beamed down from the Enterprise. This "portable" computer looked like it probably weighed (or would have weighed had it been more then cardboard) about 80 pounds and was as big as half my desk. To a 1960's audience that would have been techobabble, they would never have dreamed that one day 1000 times the computing power that once took up a whole room of machinery could fit in your hand, with a screen and pin interface, instead of binary punch cards. The world has really changed a lot, and with it, so has our technobabble.

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