Aliens and technobabble-

POSTED BY: SevenPercent
UPDATED: Friday, May 14, 2004 03:48
VIEWED: 6750
PAGE 1 of 3

1 2 3 NEXT PAGE

SEVENPERCENT

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:44 PM

Quote:
Actually, I don't worry about it too much. It's science fiction, and I'm way more interested in the characters and the stories than all the techical details.

Delia posted this on another thread, the one about FTL vs. no FTL, and it got me to thinking -Has the development of technology that can actually do the things we once dreamed of taken away from what originally made Sci-fi great? - Here's my thoughts, forgive me if I ramble, I didnt intend to post today so I didnt get my thoughts organized ahead of time

-

Originally, in some of the earliest and greatest Sci-fi, the science of the thing isnt what really mattered, it was the stories that counted- Think back to the stories that the authors you read today were influenced by- War of the Worlds, The Time Machine, 1984- HG Wells didnt write The Time Machine with an eye toward what was possible, he wrote it to comment on the nature of human relations - And it shouldnt be read with the goal of figuring out whether or not time travel is possible- Same with Orwell and Big Brother, the focus is on what it means to be a person in a totalitarian society- I've read the book that inspired Blade Runner, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, and the heart of the book wasnt whether AI was possible, it was about the nature of the soul -

What I'm getting at is that while I think the original Star Trek got it right, the later versions and the modern Sci-fi novel have gotten it all wrong- Aliens, tech, and digital animation have taken the place of human interaction and turned Sci-fi- true Sci-fi - into a freak show- Have a problem in space? Wait for the next gizmo to fix it or alien to swoop in and save the day- Remember what made the first Star Wars trilogy great? It was a human story, about finding who you were, and whether goodness existed in everyone- The latest ones? Slap some Jamaican-sounding aliens in there, who needs to develop characters?
Look at ST:TNG vs. Firefly - In OOGas, the ship breaks down, and there's nothing the crew can do about it- Does someone come to the rescue? Yep, a very bad, bad guy; which causes our beloved captain to get gutshot - True, the ending works out well for FF's crew, but how would ST have dealt with it? In the nick of time, someone on the crew would have figured out how to covert a gizmo (probably something with neutrinos), or called in aliens to help- Now, I grew up watching STTNG, so I'm not saying this to mock the show, I've seen every episode a ton of times-But not once did they ever really build the suspense like FF- With FF, you really feel for the people and what the episodes are trying to say about human interaction (how does Simon put it, out in space how you treat others is where it matters most)-

I guess what this rambling post is getting at is that you dont need aliens and you dont need technobabble to have good Sci-fi- What you need are good stories- It shouldnt matter how a 'gravity drive' works, or whether or not Serenity can go FTL- That stuff is there for the setting, it's not the story[/]- I loved B5, but I didnt give a damn how hyperspace worked, because that wasnt a character, it was just a setting with a neat special effect- I worry that if the BDM hits and Joss doesnt go with the conventions of modern, alien-oriented or realistic techno sci-fi, that the BDM is gonna bomb, because people have forgotten what matters- Let's all make sure we remember what counts-

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

RELFEXIVE

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:52 PM

Yup

Mal: "We're not gonna die. We can't die, Bendis. You know why? Because we are so... very... pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die."

CORWYN

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:00 PM

While I agree with much of what you say, I do think that how things work matters. In only as much as it needs to be internally consistent. Serenity's space drive is much more consistent than Star Treks or even Babylon 5's. Joss hasn't explain it, and I hope he never does, as it will likely fail either scientific consistency or show consistency.

The stories are what interest me too, and I don't want to be distracted by either ill-conceived science, or new particle of the week club.

Thank You Kindly.

RELFEXIVE

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:02 PM

Again with the 'Yup'

Mal: "We're not gonna die. We can't die, Bendis. You know why? Because we are so... very... pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die."

BADGERSHAT

Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:48 AM

I agree, the point is the story behind it..

... but it's fun as hell to try to qualify the tech stuff, too!!!

Tech-heads (as I sometimes count myself amongst) LOVE crap like this, tearing it apart and putting it back together...

But there's a point where the tech stuff can overwhelm the story, and create something like Tom Clancy novels gone SF... messy, bogged down...

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
Quote:
Actually, I don't worry about it too much. It's science fiction, and I'm way more interested in the characters and the stories than all the techical details.

Delia posted this on another thread, the one about FTL vs. no FTL, and it got me to thinking -Has the development of technology that can actually do the things we once dreamed of taken away from what originally made Sci-fi great? - Here's my thoughts, forgive me if I ramble, I didnt intend to post today so I didnt get my thoughts organized ahead of time -

Originally, in some of the earliest and greatest Sci-fi, the science of the thing isnt what really mattered, it was the stories that counted- Think back to the stories that the authors you read today were influenced by- War of the Worlds, The Time Machine, 1984- HG Wells didnt write The Time Machine with an eye toward what was possible, he wrote it to comment on the nature of human relations - And it shouldnt be read with the goal of figuring out whether or not time travel is possible- Same with Orwell and Big Brother, the focus is on what it means to be a person in a totalitarian society- I've read the book that inspired Blade Runner, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, and the heart of the book wasnt whether AI was possible, it was about the nature of the soul -

What I'm getting at is that while I think the original Star Trek got it right, the later versions and the modern Sci-fi novel have gotten it all wrong- Aliens, tech, and digital animation have taken the place of human interaction and turned Sci-fi- true Sci-fi - into a freak show- Have a problem in space? Wait for the next gizmo to fix it or alien to swoop in and save the day- Remember what made the first Star Wars trilogy great? It was a human story, about finding who you were, and whether goodness existed in everyone- The latest ones? Slap some Jamaican-sounding aliens in there, who needs to develop characters?
Look at ST:TNG vs. Firefly - In OOGas, the ship breaks down, and there's nothing the crew can do about it- Does someone come to the rescue? Yep, a very bad, bad guy; which causes our beloved captain to get gutshot - True, the ending works out well for FF's crew, but how would ST have dealt with it? In the nick of time, someone on the crew would have figured out how to covert a gizmo (probably something with neutrinos), or called in aliens to help- Now, I grew up watching STTNG, so I'm not saying this to mock the show, I've seen every episode a ton of times-But not once did they ever really build the suspense like FF- With FF, you really feel for the people and what the episodes are trying to say about human interaction (how does Simon put it, out in space how you treat others is where it matters most)-

I guess what this rambling post is getting at is that you dont need aliens and you dont need technobabble to have good Sci-fi- What you need are good stories- It shouldnt matter how a 'gravity drive' works, or whether or not Serenity can go FTL- That stuff is there for the setting, it's not the story[/]- I loved B5, but I didnt give a damn how hyperspace worked, because that wasnt a character, it was just a setting with a neat special effect- I worry that if the BDM hits and Joss doesnt go with the conventions of modern, alien-oriented or realistic techno sci-fi, that the BDM is gonna bomb, because people have forgotten what matters- Let's all make sure we remember what counts-

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

Wow...for being "babbling" that sure was well said. bravo!

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Here's to Jayne, the box dropping man-ape-gone-wrong-thing"
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

BROWNCOAT1

Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:03 PM

I could not agree more SevenPercent. The show should be about the people and the story, not trying to determine whether or not the technology & technobabble are accurate and wash w/ current theories. I don't need to know how something works, that is pretty much just backdrop for the real story. It's broke, can't be fixed, drama insues. That's all we need.

I liked Star Trek Next Gen for the most part, but all the technobabble would get monotonous. I also got tired of the same thing all the time. Something is broken/damaged/sabotaged and it can't be fixed. Without that one part or system, the ship & crew are in danger & the fate of the Federation or some planet or another hangs in the balance. By some miracle the crew figure out how to fix it, in the nick of time of course, and all is saved.

I really liked the fresh concept that in OoG the ship was crippled and could not be repaired. If not for those pirates coming along trying to steal Serenity, the part Mal needed would never have been obtained.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

ROCKETJOCK

Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:47 AM

If you want to see how to do this sort of thing right, check out Star Trek the Original Series; no long winded explanations of how Warp Drive works, no flashy SFX hyperspace/slipstream/stargate jumps; Warp Drive was a convenient piece of furniture used to move the characters "out there" where the plot could take place. Hell, in the earliest episodes it's fairly obvious that the structures later designated as "Warp Nacelles" were intended to be the sublight/impulse propulsion system (I.E., visible rocket tubes at the ends, a bit of model design later modified/ignored.)

The exact nature of Serenity's propulsion systems was, I think, left sketchy on purpose, to avoid strait-jacketing writers; but Joss is too good a storyteller/overseer to have let it be inconsistent; eventually, after enough episodes turned on the ship's capabilities, a consistent picture of how "Gravity Drive" and "Hard Burn" worked would have emerged. As it is, as fun as these threads can be as intellectual exercises, we're all making a lot of soup out of a single mouse.

"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein

BEATLE

Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:56 AM

And a lot of the Sci-Fi techno-babble has become a reality.
Sometimes the writers are ahead of the times, and sometimes the times follow the writers.

SEVENPERCENT

Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
If you want to see how to do this sort of thing right, check out Star Trek the Original Series; no long winded explanations of how Warp Drive works, no flashy SFX hyperspace/slipstream/stargate jumps; Warp Drive was a convenient piece of furniture used to move the characters "out there" where the plot could take place. Hell, in the earliest episodes it's fairly obvious that the structures later designated as "Warp Nacelles" were intended to be the sublight/impulse propulsion system (I.E., visible rocket tubes at the ends, a bit of model design later modified/ignored.)

The exact nature of Serenity's propulsion systems was, I think, left sketchy on purpose, to avoid strait-jacketing writers; but Joss is too good a storyteller/overseer to have let it be inconsistent; eventually, after enough episodes turned on the ship's capabilities, a consistent picture of how "Gravity Drive" and "Hard Burn" worked would have emerged. As it is, as fun as these threads can be as intellectual exercises, we're all making a lot of soup out of a single mouse.

"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein

See, that's what I was getting at- Sci-fi was just the tool to look at societal problems from an angle that was socially acceptable without pointing fingers- The absolute best episode ever of the original ST (as far as this thread is concerned, in my opinion) was the one with the black/white face guys (dont remember the ep. title)- It made two aliens mimic Earth's race problems, built great characters, and got the point across about what racism and hate do- I have trouble thinking of any STTNG thaqt even comes close to this (but there is a beautiful DS9 in which the file clerk at an extermination camp undergoes surgery to look like the overlord at that camp in order to die to pay for his whole race's crimes- awesome story)-
The sci-fi was secondary- Look at the original novel Frankenstein- Victor learns the secrets of life and death in just two years, after being bored by what he was learning and striking out on his own- Does anyone ever question this when they interpret the work? No, because it's a plot device, and not central to the issues of the work-

Now, I dont want anyone to get me wrong- I'm not bashing anyone who wants to talk real science and how it relates to FF- Sometimes it's fun to discuss whether or not FTL is really possible, I'm guilty of that myself- But I'd hate for anyone to show up at the movie and be unable to suspend their disbelief, as the saying goes- Watch the series. Watch the BDM. Enjoy them for the story first, which I think is what Joss would say they are all about-

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

1 2 3 NEXT PAGE