My theory about guns in Firefly

POSTED BY: Ringwraith
UPDATED: Thursday, January 2, 2003 01:21
VIEWED: 41138
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FORGRAETJUSTICE

Sunday, October 27, 2002 7:29 PM

Ok, true, the increase in accuracy is minimal, but think how much easier it is to use! I think we may underestimate the amount of muscle memory we work on when developing a proper trigger pull. Not only that, but while on shotguns an rifles, the advantage is minimal, havng a negligible pull from an electronic trigger might be helpful for any weapon you plan to use one-handed, and the penchant for using long-arms one handed in Firefly is just....uncanny.

Anyway, you can always charge up all the other electronic doo-hickeys that are so popular these days. (Funny...I'm the type who just sold a bolt-rifle to finance and AR-lower)

TINYTIMM

Sunday, October 27, 2002 11:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ForGraetJustice:
Not only that, but while on shotguns an rifles, the advantage is minimal, havng a negligible pull from an electronic trigger might be helpful for any weapon you plan to use one-handed, and the penchant for using long-arms one handed in Firefly is just....uncanny.

Perhaps it's a requirement for the security, shooter recognition system?

Jeff
Who suspects everyone.

RINGNECK

Monday, October 28, 2002 1:28 AM

Well, I think we might have overlooked a simple answer to why the guns have an old west look to them........ The people buying them want them too. I dont mean the prop department either.

Just because the rebellion is over doesnt mean all guns are forbidden. After the Civil War ended there were allowances for private weapons, we never completley banned the Indians from owning weapons on the reservations, and even in Soviet Russia those who lived in primitive areas were allowed to own certain kinds of guns.

So, if in the Firefly universe if guns arent illegal, maybe the trend in style has caused some companies to produce them with a western flair. Currently Marlin is producing lever action rifles that are modern designs, just with styling touches and features that resemble its offerings from a century ago. Right now, western looking weapons and very hightech style firearms are kind of the trend in the firearms market. The mass-market tastes of civillian buyers tends to drive gun design.

This has been adressed to, but here's my two cents on it, re; why they use projectile weapon technology 500 years in the future..... We arent told much about the weapons they are using, such as what kind of primers and propellants are used, how the ammunition works, ect. In the future they might be using materials like ceramics and plastics that we cant really concieve of now.

An interesting tidbit is that many weapons now are supposed to have a working life of several hundered years if treated well and gently used. So weapons made not to far from now might just end up being used in the far future if they are desperate for guns.

BradLaGrange

FORGRAETJUSTICE

Monday, October 28, 2002 5:16 AM

That's a good point about having guns shaped with a Western flair. They certainly are popular, even today! If the people flying around on the edges of space see themselves as frontiersmen (and they are) there's no reason they wouldn't tend to romanticize their weapons. We're guilty of that today to some extent.

I forsee firearms technology developing in the areas of propellant, terminal ballistics (the ability of a bullet to damage its target) and ergonomics. Of course, guns will always look like guns, since people always look like people. One thing I don't get: Remember Our Mrs. Reynolds, when Jayne says that Vera needs an oxygen atmosphere to fire? That shouldn't be true, right? Guns fire underwater...is there any reason a firearms wouldn't work in a vacuum? MSomething to do with air pressure? It's probably some silly safety feature that's useless.....much like....

Personalized Weapons technology! The "smart gun" is a fad that should probably die before its invented, and I have a good idea why they're not used in Firefly. First of all, their benefit is extremely limited. They're useful in enclosed environs where a limited number of people have weapons, and opponents do not. Prisons, and naval vessels come to mind. Their sole purpose is to prevent someone from using your own weapon against you. If the someones you expect to face have their own weapons, its a moot point. While Serenity is an enclosed environment, the crew isn't an organized, armed force that one would attack solely for the purpose of obtaining a weapon. And, presumably, they don't often carry on board, at least not openly. Just as easy to put a lock on the armory for them. Also, personalized weapons can be an extreme liability from a reliability standpoint. If electronic components are required to activate the weapon for firing, then certain electromagnetic, or purely magnetic jamming techniques could render a weapon useless.

I can see the Alliance using them, just as I can see modern-day corrections officers using them. But I doubt guys and girls like you and me ever will.

That said, does anyone have a digitized copy of Out of Gas they'd let me download? I missed it! :-(

RINGNECK

Monday, October 28, 2002 7:04 PM

Yeah, I mean I'm sure we'll have people wanting western looking guns for hundereds of years in the future. They remake all kinds of archaic weapons now that exist soley for the purpose of their eye-pleasing nature. The Ruger Black Hawk, Single Six and Vaquero six-shooters are big sellers, and for all the world look like old west wheel guns but they are completley differently built with modern internals and modern steel.

Its a moot point to argue why the Alliance uses HK's and SA's. The prop people wanted something that futuristic and military looking at the same time. Since they needed something that could be used to fire blanks, they couldnt just mold some lazer weapon out of plastics.

I kind of wish they did do like the prop department did in the original Planet of the Apes. In that movie they took WWII era M1 carbines and put them in brand new stocks. Really altered the appearence of the gun. Maybe they should have done that with the Alliance weapons.

Also, look at what they did to WWII era Thompson Submachine Guns in Aliens. Took me forever to figure out the identity of those guns.

BradLaGrange

FORGRAETJUSTICE

Monday, October 28, 2002 10:50 PM

I agree. The M41 Pulse rifle is quite possibly the best wacky movie-gun ever created.

DELVO

Monday, October 28, 2002 11:07 PM

Quote:
Remember Our Mrs. Reynolds, when Jayne says that Vera needs an oxygen atmosphere to fire? That shouldn't be true, right? Guns fire underwater...is there any reason a firearms wouldn't work in a vacuum?

He didn't say she needed oxygen, just "air". A sudden drop in temperature and pressure might do nasty things to lubricants and some of the small precision parts like springs.

SENSOU

Wednesday, October 30, 2002 2:28 AM

Here's my theroy: I know nothing about firearms. But I do know the importance of details in a story. Firefly is a western in addition to a sci-fi show. You cannot just say a show is this genre or that one, you have to show it. And how many cowboys have you seen with a phaser?

Sensou
Who is waiting for Jayne to pull out one of those Magnum(?) thingies, the ones that can stop a charging rhino!

MARK

Thursday, November 7, 2002 11:06 PM

I have three main points to mention here... I call them the Superiority point, the 1633 point and the OpSec point...

Superiority - A story by Arthur C Clarke where one army with the most up-to-date weapons imaginable is defeated by a less sophisticated force because its guns never work right and there are problems making them in quantity. This might explain the tendency to hold back the high-technology in Firefly as, if you really go for it with High Tech you might find yourself with a knife in the gut before you've had time to arm your fusion pulse cannon.

1633 is a good book. Read it... This point relates to Logistics. Remember, these people were fighting either an interplanetary or an interstellar war - We need a little clarification on this Joss!!! Anyway... Supplies, like parts for the Zap guns would have to be hauled all the way to the front from high-tech factories on other planets and it's not good to have such a long supply train. Let's say they choose to use guns that use brass cartridges (Or some high-tech subtitute)... That means you can ship bullets to the front line loaded with high tech propellant and high tech slugs, and then the people doing the fighting - if short of supplies - can police up the brass and refill them with simple steel slugs and home-brew black powder which will still work (Albeit less efficiently than the originals) and keep fighting. Whereas it's prettyhard to make a spare plasma containment field's control matrix out of spit and mud.

Then we have OpSec... If one side of a war comes up with a new Zap gun then they tend not to use it until they have decisive quantities... Perhaps while one side was still ramping up, the war was won. You never make a gift of supplies or knowledge to your enemy.

Let's add to all this that there are lots of flaws with weapons like lasers. An aerosol spray can disrupt a laserbeam and make it lose so much energy that it is no longer effective outside of a meter away. If these weapons came into service then both sides would blanket the battlefield with anti-laser vapour so there's no point in having them.

Lasers might be used by alliance troops in vacuum. A laser has no recoil and so is a VERY good choice for that environment. Plus there's no atmospheric attenuation of the beam.

Note, in Bushwhacked, The Alliance cruiser used missiles to destroy the ghost-ship. Lasers would have been more efficient... Just cut the ship into chunks. It's not like the thing would have offered any resistance... No, instead they use Missiles. Which suggests that those ships don't HAVE lasers... Although they do have artificial gravity which suggests the possibility of Grav-Lensed grasers for anti-ship work. But they might be rather energy hungry.

Questions? Comments?

Mark - Glad he can download Firefly rather than waiting for the UK showing

"Oops" Shannon Foraker - Ashes of Victory.

HOBBES

Saturday, November 9, 2002 11:53 PM

From the new weblog:

Quote:
...first glimpse of such technologies as a true laser pistol and a hovercraft.

http://www.fox.com/firefly/weblog.htm
for the whole thing.

Well it looks we're wrong, there are lasers.

By the way I enjoyed your points Mark (Good Arthur C. Clarke story, that and the Nine Billion Names of God are my favorite).

The High Tech point makes sense, like software there is probably a debugging phase that could not be done well in the middle of the war (now that it's over we might see more lasers when running into Alliance).

The 1633 point (another good book too): I see your point but from "Safe" it sounds like they're using energy packs (note the whine before firing in the gunfight scene). Batteries of some kind? The guns might still retain a switchover capicity though.

OpSec makes perfect sense, ties in with debugging the guns.

As for the flaws...again I agree with you. Also with using them in boarding actions/vacumn etc...

-------------------------------------------------
May the road rise to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May you be in heaven an hour before
The Devil knows you’re dead.

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