In space, no one is listening anyway

POSTED BY: SittingDuck
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 14:31
VIEWED: 8045
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SGTGUMP

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:19 AM

There is no sound in space. There is no air or any other substance for sound to travel through. Just look at 2001: A Space Odyssey, there were no sounds during the space sequences either. Just radio noise, or breathing or something. Interesting note: sound travels about 1 mile per second through air and about 5 times that fast underwater.

"Have good sex" -Kaylee

LINDLEY

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:09 AM

Quote:
That and the exceeding the speed of light crap (warp drive or hyperspace, whatever) that other shows and movies all use. Hey, people: Einstein proved 100 years ago that it can't be done, period. I'm so glad Joss got that one right.

Einstein proved that it would not be possible given the information he had at the time. He never claimed that his laws were absolute and inviolable; in fact, I beleive he once said, "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right. A single experiment at any time can prove me wrong."

That doesn't preclude some form of spacefold drive (which is one interpretation of Warp Drive), or a level of reality outside of normal space (like SW or B5 hyperspace).

So yes, its impossible to exceed the speed of light in normal space. That doesn't necessarily translate to it being impossible to move between two points faster than a photon is normally able to do so.

Which is really neither here nor there.....since it was never firmly established whether or not Serenity's drive was FTL in nature.

ROCKETJOCK

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:43 AM

Personally, I think the argument other shows have used, that you have to have sound in space because without sound the action lacks drama, shows a distinct lack of imagination. Joss understands that the mood of a space-based series is enhanced by silence, just as a submarine-warfare drama can be enhanced by realistic underwater lighting and sounds.

As to the FTL/STL question, and the related "One Solar System or many?" controversy, why don't we leave that discussion to other threads, Hokay?

(For the record, I'm a "multiple systems/FTL drive" man myself; but I'll admit the evidence is contradictory at best.)

"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein

BIKISDAD

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:47 AM

Well, the Serenity drive appeared to be some sort of nuclear powered propulsion system, which obviously would not be FTL. Interesting that a a couple of scientists are currently working on a theoretical nuclear space propulsion drive. It's way, way in the early planning stages and would probably never be developed within our lifetimes.

Stephen Hawking has theorized that particles may travel faster than light within a black hole. So what? I for one am not going to volunteer to fly a rocket into a black hole to check out that theory. His theory may be true, but trying to go FTL by travelling through a black hole has a serious death side-effect that probably makes it not worthwhile to attempt.

Actually, over the decades, many experiments have been done in particle accelerators that show Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity (the one that says you can't go FTL) to be exactly correct. Hawking's theory aside, it can't be done in real space. Even if it can be done within a black hole, we can't survive anywhere near the gravity well of a black hole. So the only place in the 'verse where real human beings are going to go FTL is in their imaginations.

STIZO

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 5:03 AM

As to your opinion that realspace FTL is impossible. Just a few thoughts:
It was once thought impossible that the Earth revolves around the sun.
It was once thought impossible that man could fly.
It was once thought impossible that man would reach the moon.
If science and history has taught us anything, it's that we don't really know much of anything.
A few hundred years in the future they might laught at what we deemed to be impossible.
In my opinion, having FTL in the future is just as likely as not having it. So to say one is more realistic than the other is not somthing that can really be done. Eventually Einstein and Hawking might be proved to be wrong, or not. Only time will tell.

Doing the impossible, makes us mighty.

Telling an Engineer that somthing is impossible is the equivalent of "Triple-Dog-Daring" a 6-year old.

----------------------------------------------
Conquering the galaxy with terrifying space monkeys, one ship at a time...

BIKISDAD

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 5:20 AM

Actually, Einstein was merely correcting an old belief, from classical physics, that FTL travel WAS possible. You're right about people's belief's being proven wrong over time. What you're missing is the historical context. Einstein corrected the old, WRONG belief that there is no limit to particle velocity.

SITTINGDUCK

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:
Originally posted by SittingDuck:
In space, no one is listening anyway

BWAAHAHAHAHA lol!!! Nice one! You don't know how original and funny that is. Are you a writer? You should be.

I'm not a published writer. While I've written some RPG material that is posted on a couple of Internet pages, I'm not too good at fiction. I have trouble with dialogue. As to that line, it's a chapter title from a book by a certain British author who is quite popular.

Speaking of fiction, I've had an idea for a Reaver based fanfic. But as I've said, I'm not much good at writing fiction. If anyone wants to use it, just send me a private message. So far, I just have a very loose out line and the title, "Tastes Like Chicken".

You have the right to the remains of a silent attorney. If you cannot afford one, tough noogies.

RELFEXIVE

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bikisdad:
Actually, Einstein was merely correcting an old belief, from classical physics, that FTL travel WAS possible. You're right about people's belief's being proven wrong over time. What you're missing is the historical context. Einstein corrected the old, WRONG belief that there is no limit to particle velocity.

Of course, that does not stop someone proving later on that our RIGHT theories were actually WRONG theories. Theories change and get replaced as new maths and new technology allow us to explore the limits and discover new ones.

Theories are just models, not the real thing. They explain what we can see, not what is.

Besides, some very clever physicists say if you could warp the energy field of spacetime you could create a sort of 'incline' that would propel you faster than light... but that's just a theory, and one badly explained at that.

SHORT ANSWER: If it is possible, we don't know how. This does not make it actually impossible.

Mal: "We're not gonna die. We can't die, Bendis. You know why? Because we are so... very... pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die."

GHOULMAN

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SittingDuck:
Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:
Originally posted by SittingDuck:
In space, no one is listening anyway

BWAAHAHAHAHA lol!!! Nice one! You don't know how original and funny that is. Are you a writer? You should be.

I'm not a published writer. While I've written some RPG material that is posted on a couple of Internet pages, I'm not too good at fiction. I have trouble with dialogue. As to that line, it's a chapter title from a book by a certain British author who is quite popular.

Speaking of fiction, I've had an idea for a Reaver based fanfic. But as I've said, I'm not much good at writing fiction. If anyone wants to use it, just send me a private message. So far, I just have a very loose out line and the title, "Tastes Like Chicken".

You have the right to the remains of a silent attorney. If you cannot afford one, tough noogies.

Well ya gotta tell me who this writer is! Tastes like chicken... heh heh. I think I've heard an Argentine soccer player say that once.

BIKISDAD

Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:45 PM

I know this is getting off topic, although my original intent was just to compliment Joss on the realism of Firefly, as opposed to all the shows/movies with "Star..." in the title.

Contrary to what seems to be a somewhat popular belief, there ARE absolutes in this universe. There is no sound in space - for reasons explained very well by someone earlier in the thread. FTL travel is also impossible. If you don't believe me, then read "Introduction to Modern Physics" by Richtmeyer, Kennard, and Cooper. It has the best explanation anywhere of Einstein's Special Theory, which, by the way has been proven true over and over and over by many different experiments over many decades. If you are looking for Einstein's wrong theory, that would be the "Unified Field Theory", which has nothing to do with special relativity.

The fact is, the speed of light as a limiting constant is basic to the existence of the universe in the form we observe (in fact, even light can not go faster than the speed of light - when you are in your car going 80 m.p.h. with the headlights on, the light from the headlights doesn't go the speed of light plus 80, it just goes the speed of light, but with a blue shift to the spectrum to account for the extra energy provided by the speed of your car). If it was not so, this universe would be a very different place than it is, and we probably wouldn't even exist.

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