Real World Event Discussions

If you like Bush & what he's done to this world, you are evil.

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 19:38
VIEWED: 30693
PAGE 8 of 32

ELVISCHRIST

Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:09 AM

Quote:
Well, you got one thing right. If Bush didn't know it was a lie, then in fact he did NOT lie! Genius!

So if one doesn't know or believe that 9/11 wasn't a U.S. conspiracy, then saying it was an inside job would NOT be a lie! Genius!

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

KWICKO

Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:08 AM

Quote:
...but I do know ONE thing.... that he's WRONG. Being WRONG does not necessarily make one a liar, now does it ?

Well, in point of fact, yes. Claiming facts and knowledge that are wrong, and passing them along and repeating them as fact without credible evidence that they are indeed fact, and with credible evidence that they are indeed NOT fact, is LYING.

Quote:
The intel wasn't wrong. US sources only said that THEIR intel couldn't confirm it, meaning that they COULD NOT CONFIRM IT! He DID NOT say anything which he knew was untrue. The Brits , TO THIS DAY still maintain their intel was right.

The Brits still maintain their intel was correct. Wonderful.

Bush and his officials knew better, because they had been told - REPEATEDLY - that this was bad intel.

Quote:
Public Statement of President George W. Bush:
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
Source: President Delivers "State of the Union", White House (1/28/2003).

Why This Statement is Misleading:
This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq sought uranium from Africa despite the fact that the CIA expressed doubts about the credibility of this claim in two memos to the White House, including one addressed to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. CIA Director George Tenet also warned against using the claim in a telephone call to Ms. Rice's deputy. In addition, the statement fails to mention that State Department intelligence officials also concluded that this claim was "highly dubious."

Also, it should be noted that of the two mines where Saddam was allegedly buying his yellowcake, one was flooded at the time of the British "intel", and the other was under control of French authorities.

Quote:
Public Statement of President George W. Bush:
"He said he wouldn't have chemical weapons, he's got them."
Source: Remarks by the President at Arkansas Welcome, White House (11/4/2002).

Why This Statement is Misleading:
This statement was misleading because it professed certainty. According to CIA Director George Tenet, "it is important to underline the word estimate." In addition, the statement failed to acknowledge the Defense Intelligence Agency position that: "There is no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons or where Iraq has -- or will -- establish its chemical warfare agent production facilities."

Quote:
Public Statement of President George W. Bush:
"Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."
Source: President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/7/2002).

Why This Statement is Misleading:
This statement was misleading because it suggested that Iraq sought aluminum tubes for use in its nuclear weapons program, failing to mention that the government’s most experienced technical experts at the U.S. Department of Energy concluded that the tubes were "poorly suited" for this purpose.

Quote:
Public Statement of President George W. Bush:
"If the Iraq regime is able to produce, buy, or steal an amount of highly enriched uranium a little larger than a single softball, it could have a nuclear weapon in less than one year."
Source: President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/7/2002).

Why This Statement is Misleading:
This statement was misleading because it failed to provide the context that the U.S. intelligence community believed that Iraq probably would not be able to make a nuclear weapon until near the end of the decade.

Quote:
Public Statement of President George W. Bush:
"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof - the smoking gun - that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."
Source: President Bush Outl

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KWICKO

Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:51 AM

And the lies from the Bush Administration just keep coming...

This time, we're being lied to about IRAN. Imagine that... An administration lying to try to promote a war...

Quote:
Arming our own enemies in Iraq
Submitted by davidswanson on Fri, 2008-06-06 02:55.
Bush officials claim that Iran has supplied grenade launchers to Iraqi militants -- but the real source of the weapons is U.S. negligence.
By Gareth Porter, Salon

June 6, 2008 | In recent months, Gen. David Petraeus charged that Iran has supplied powerful rocket-propelled grenade launchers to Shiite militias in Iraq. But according to the U.S. government's own reports, there is no evidence to support that charge. In fact, the vast majority of RPGs in the hands of Shiite militants have come from either U.S.-purchased weapons intended for Iraq's new security forces, or from Saddam Hussein's old stockpiles, which the U.S. failed to secure when it took control of the country.

The Bush administration has long sought to create the impression that Iran has been playing a major military role in Iraq by supplying arms to Shiite militias, including the cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's powerful Mahdi army. But to date, U.S. military officials have offered scant or even dubious evidence of Iranian military involvement in Iraq -- and Petraeus' allegation about the RPGs is a clear-cut case of unsubstantiated charges.

Last October, and again in late December, Petraeus stated emphatically there was "absolutely no question" that Iran provided RPG-29s, a sophisticated anti-tank weapon, to Iraqi Shiite militiamen. He even called the RPG-29 an Iranian "signature weapon."

What Petraeus failed to mention, however, is that RPG-29s are manufactured by Russia, not Iran, and those that have shown up in Iraq apparently came from Syria. The Syrian government bought large numbers of RPG-29s from Russia in 1999 and 2000, many of which ended up being used by Hezbollah in the war against Israel in 2006, according to Israeli and Lebanese media reports. Even some U.S. military officials were quoted in the media in May 2006 as saying that they believed RPG-29s had been smuggled into Iraq from Syria.

Moreover, as Air Force Col. Scott Maw of the Multi-National Force Iraq (MNF-I) Strategic Communications Office told me in a telephone interview last week, "very few" RPG-29s have actually been found in Iraq. An examination of U.S. military press releases on weapons caches found in Shiite areas reveals no mention of RPG-29s. Additionally, the U.S. military has never displayed a captured one to reporters.
In a highly publicized February 2007 slide show, U.S. military briefers did include a picture of what was identified as a round to be fired by an Iranian-made RPG-7AT-1 launcher, a less advanced weapon than the RPG-29, although it did not depict the launcher itself. But the U.S. military has found no evidence of an Iranian pipeline of RPG-7s to Iraqi Shiite militants, either.

In more than two dozen MNF-I news releases on Iraqi Shiite weapons since early 2007, more than 200 RPGs are listed. Not a single one was identified as Iranian-made. That was not because of a lack of effort by the U.S. military, however, to determine whether captured weapons were of Iranian origin. Lt. Col. Steve Stover, the spokesman for the 4th Infantry Division, which is deployed in and around Baghdad, confirmed that explosives experts examine the findings at each cache site to determine the origin of the weapons. "Normally we say whether they are Iranian-manufactured or not," Stover said in a telephone interview.

Col. Maw said that the number of these weapons found in militants' possession is rising rapidly -- now more than 400 -- due to many discoveries being made by Iraqi Security Forces in recent months. "Very few of them are of recent manufacture," he said, suggesting that they came from Saddam Hussein's old stockpiles.

The U.S. command is so eager to highlight any weapons that can be linked to Iran that one MNF-I press release from last September singled out the discovery of four Iranian hand gren

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CITIZEN

Saturday, June 14, 2008 8:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
The Brits still maintain their intel was correct. Wonderful.

MI6 was livid the way the dossier was changed, most of the 'evidence' Bush used to legitimise war in Iraq didn't come from British Intelligence, it came from the Intelligence Dossier on Iraq, most of which came from some where other than British intelligence. Google Dr David Kelly, or the Hutton Report for more of that controversy. British Intelligence doesn't stand by the Dossier, they didn't stand by it even before the invasion of Iraq, and it's pretty much accepted here that it was a load of bollocks, so where the accusation that the 'Brits still maintain their intel was correct' comes from eludes me. Unless they mean the intelligence gathered by MI6, which may be correct, but wasn't used to justify the Iraq war. Smells of smoke and mirrors to me.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, June 14, 2008 11:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Chrissy, if you could do me the favor of simply giving ONE lie Bush told that sent us to war w/ Iraq, I'd gladly say uncle.

It works even better if you put your fingers in your ears and shout "I can't hear you!" over and over...

There have been several examples of Bush's lies in this thread, and many, many more in others over the years. All you're saying is you don't believe them - and then telling your own lies by saying no one has provided instances of Bush's.

Seriously, all you're proving with this droning refrain is your infinite capacity for delusion.

SergeantX

Point of fact, there have been no examples of Bush lying us into war, just twisted , distorted snippets which feverish anarchist types use to belittle the President.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Saturday, June 14, 2008 11:16 AM

Mike, all these quotes you claim are " misleading " are nothing more than OPINION !! These aren't FACTS. If the President is told by his CIA director that the case against Saddam and WMD is a " slam dunk ", wtf is the President suppose to do ? Tell the American public that his top intelligence man said one thing, but I'm just not too certain there's anything to worry about here. Even though every single Democrat leader has been saying Saddam has WMD and we must not allow him to use them again, , even though there were 17 U.N. Resolutions against Iraq , even though there were agreements from the 1st Gulf War which were broken, even though there were missing WMD materials - catalogued by the UNITED NATIONS THEMSELVES, even though all this was going on and a HELL of a lot more that's not even been reported,..... you STILL want to take the position that.....meh, there's nothing to all these things. Maybe we should roll over and go back to sleep? ( Like we did for the previous 8 yrs ??? ) Sorry, but the one legitimate thing Bush has done in his terms in office is to protect the United States, its interest and the interest of many other countries.

Them's the facts, whether you want to accept them or not.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

WHOZIT

Saturday, June 14, 2008 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
There's really no discussion; if you support lies, torture & war profiteering, then you are in Congress with the Beast. You are evil by mis-interpreting reality, or by embracing greed by way of death.

May God have mercy, 'cause Bush won't.

Biped Planetisall

Where do you get off deciding who's evil? Did you ever wonder if you may be on the wrong side? I'm sure during WW2 most Germans thought they were the good guys. You're like those race baiting poverty pimps who think they have the power to decide who's black and who is not. For example, they say Justice Thomas is'nt black because he's a conservitive. If that empty suited puppet Obama gets elected and things get worse, will you call him evil or make excuses for him. Also, the Demonrats now control the house and senate, they said in 2006 they'd do something to lower gas prices. THEY LIED!!!!

CITIZEN

Saturday, June 14, 2008 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
Where do you get off deciding who's evil? Did you ever wonder if you may be on the wrong side? I'm sure during WW2 most Germans thought they were the good guys.

Did you? Or is you're point that you can't take a joke?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

KWICKO

Saturday, June 14, 2008 3:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:

Where do you get off deciding who's evil? Did you ever wonder if you may be on the wrong side? I'm sure during WW2 most Germans thought they were the good guys. You're like those race baiting poverty pimps who think they have the power to decide who's black and who is not. For example, they say Justice Thomas is'nt black because he's a conservitive. If that empty suited puppet Obama gets elected and things get worse, will you call him evil or make excuses for him. Also, the Demonrats now control the house and senate, they said in 2006 they'd do something to lower gas prices. THEY LIED!!!!

Where to begin...?

You're sure during WWII most Germans thought they were the good guys, huh? Guess what - when Bush launched this illegal, immoral, and unjust war, most Americans thought they were the good guys, too. So YOU are saying that America is no better than Nazi Germany! If they thought they were the good guys, did that make it so? Were they in fact good, or were they evil?

"Poverty pimps" - You mean like the conservative talk-radio hosts who refer to Obama as a "Halfrican-American"? Those race-baiters? The ones who also get to decide who's a Muslim? I honestly don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that Justice Clarence Thomas "isn't black". I *have* heard people say that he doesn't represent black interests, but those people are dolts who don't realize that Thomas wasn't appointed to the Black Supreme Court, but rather to the United States Supreme Court, which represents ALL of the American people, not just the white or black ones.

If Obama gets elected and things get worse... Define "worse". If he launches a war based on lies and misrepresentation, if he uses ruses like "security" and fear to try to strip away Constitutional protections, if he tries to replace public education with state-sponsored faith-based religious indoctrination, then yes, I'll call him evil. If he tries to expand the use of torture on American soil, then yes, I'll call him evil.

Will I make excuses for him? You mean excuses like, "but the President doesn't have any say over the economy" or "but he never lied, because he's the President" or "we don't torture because the President said so"? Those kinds of excuses? I'll leave those to you and your kind.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

WHOZIT

Saturday, June 14, 2008 3:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:

Where do you get off deciding who's evil? Did you ever wonder if you may be on the wrong side? I'm sure during WW2 most Germans thought they were the good guys. You're like those race baiting poverty pimps who think they have the power to decide who's black and who is not. For example, they say Justice Thomas is'nt black because he's a conservitive. If that empty suited puppet Obama gets elected and things get worse, will you call him evil or make excuses for him. Also, the Demonrats now control the house and senate, they said in 2006 they'd do something to lower gas prices. THEY LIED!!!!

Where to begin...?

You're sure during WWII most Germans thought they were the good guys, huh? Guess what - when Bush launched this illegal, immoral, and unjust war, most Americans thought they were the good guys, too. So YOU are saying that America is no better than Nazi Germany! If they thought they were the good guys, did that make it so? Were they in fact good, or were they evil?

"Poverty pimps" - You mean like the conservative talk-radio hosts who refer to Obama as a "Halfrican-American"? Those race-baiters? The ones who also get to decide who's a Muslim? I honestly don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that Justice Clarence Thomas "isn't black". I *have* heard people say that he doesn't represent black interests, but those people are dolts who don't realize that Thomas wasn't appointed to the Black Supreme Court, but rather to the United States Supreme Court, which represents ALL of the American people, not just the white or black ones.

If Obama gets elected and things get worse... Define "worse". If he launches a war based on lies and misrepresentation, if he uses ruses like "security" and fear to try to strip away Constitutional protections, if he tries to replace public education with state-sponsored faith-based religious indoctrination, then yes, I'll call him evil. If he tries to expand the use of torture on American soil, then yes, I'll call him evil.

Will I make excuses for him? You mean excuses like, "but the President doesn't have any say over the economy" or "but he never lied, because he's the President" or "we don't torture because the President said so"? Those kinds of excuses? I'll leave those to you and your kind.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

This country is made up of my kind, your kind and every kind, my point was simply were do you get the rite to call me call me and my kind evil? When you think about it you are prejudgeing me, we've never met so that makes you and your kind "BIGOTS" You think I'm evil becase I do'nt agree with you?