Firefly Feminist Debate

POSTED BY: Arcadia
UPDATED: Thursday, June 19, 2008 03:30
VIEWED: 8444
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ARCADIA

Thursday, June 5, 2008 10:44 AM

Well, I'm a little pissed. Recently, I ran across a blog entry on livejournal that features a reading of Firefly as a misogynistic television show -- which of course, is total bs. The essay is so harsh in its language and so off in its interpretation that I was inspired to spend an hour and a half writing a 2,500+ response article -- only to find out that her blog only allows comments from "fiends", so I couldn't post my response to her essay. Yeah, missed.

Here is a link to her essay: http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html

Here is a sample:

...The first scene opens in a war with Mal and Zoe. Zoe runs around calling Mal ‘sir’ and taking orders off him. I roll my eyes. Not a good start.

The next scene is set in the present. Mal, Jayne, and Zoe are floating about in space. They come into some danger. Mal gets all panicky.

Zoe says, “This ship's been derelict for months. Why would they –”

Mal replies, (in Chinese) “Shut up.”

So in the very second scene of the very first episode, an episode written and directed by the great feminist Joss, a white man tells a black woman to ‘shut up’ for no apparent reason. And she does shut up. And she continues to call him sir. And takes his orders, even when they are dumb orders, for the rest of the series.

The next scene we meet Kaylee, the ship’s mechanic. <- Lookee, lookee, feminist empowerment. In this scene Mal and Jayne are stowing away the cargo they just stole. Kaylee is chatting to them, happily. Jayne asks Mal to get Kaylee to stop being so cheerful. Mal replies, “Sometimes you just wanna duct tape her mouth and dump her in the hold for a month.” Yes, that is an exact quote, “Sometimes you just wanna DUCT TAPE HER MOUTH and DUMP HER IN THE HOLD FOR A MONTH.” Kaylee responds by grinning and giving Mal a kiss on the cheek and saying, “I love my Captain.”

What the fuck is this feminist man trying to say about women here? A black woman calling a white man ‘sir’. A white male captain who abuses and silences his female crew, with no consequences. The women are HAPPY to be abused. They enjoy it. What does this say about women, Joss? What does this say about you? Do you tell your wife to shut up? Do you threaten to duct tape her mouth? Lock her in the bedroom? Is this funny to you, Joss? Because it sure as fuck ain’t funny to me...."

Really, omg...

Here's a link to my response, at my livejournal: http://greyfable.livejournal.com/33824.html

And a sample:
...You are objecting that the fact that Zoe calls Mal “sir”? Hmm. If Zoe were calling Mal “sir” because he is a man and she is a woman, I could see your objection. If she were calling him “sir” because she was a woman of color and he was white, I could understand. But that isn’t the context at all. Zoe is calling Mal “sir” because they are both soldiers – not just soldiers, mind you, but soldiers on the font line of a war in the middle of combat – and Mal is Zoe’s superior officer. It is a sign no of submission, but a sign of respect that Zoe gives freely. Zoe does not have to call him “sir”. She is not in a situation where she would face any negative consequences for not calling him sir.

An even if she was, Zoe is a physically strong female who is well-trained in the art of combat. As seen in scenes such as the bar fight in the beginning of “The Train Job” – an episode co-written by Joss Whedon, which served as a replacement pilot when Fox chose not to air the “Serenity” pilot for their own reasons – Zoe is portrayed as a fighter who is, if anything, superior to Mal in training and cleverness, if not physical strength. (I honestly cannot tell if she is supposed to have more raw strength than Mal – maybe; regardless of intellectual ideals, biology dictates that men’s bodies are designed to be stronger than woman’s bodies.) In short, Zoe does not have to take shit from anyone. More so than any other female character on the show, save perhaps for Inara (I will get to her later), everything Zoe does is a CHOICE.

In the very second scene of the very first episode, an episode

PHYRELIGHT

Thursday, June 5, 2008 11:31 AM

They're still going on about that?? *rolls eyes*

Darksiders can keep their cookies. We have better writers.

Grrr. Argghh.

Patiently waiting to see Cap'n Hammerpants sing!

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, June 5, 2008 12:55 PM

The sad reality of this particular situation is that there are legions of Star Wars fans out there...most of whom refuse to admit that the franchise went down the drain, more than that, it destroyed and tore down sci-fi more than the original Star Wars revived and rejuvenated the genre. Those last 3 movies were utter garbage of the lowest common denominator kind...an embarrassment to all sci-fi enthusiasts. These folks will never accept Firefly, and that's just how it is. They would rather ridicule and attack Firefly than accept the harsh fact that it's a vastly superior product...something in the genre geared for ADULTS...not pc-protected fuzzy, warm kiddie fare designed to sell McDonalds kid meals and lunchpails. I would also say it was a show that totally empowered women...a cast of strong women who each had amazing talents and could stand on their own if they had to. So what if Zoe says "sir" to Mal. I like it. It shows respect...he is the Captain after all...and it's a nice balance to Inara's ever-present "petty-thief" barb she uses whenever Mal gets her a tad off balance.

NBZ

Thursday, June 5, 2008 5:14 PM

Going totally off topic, but why does Joss *HAVE* to empower women?

IMO you can only empower yourself, not others.

It can be argued that Joss empowers women. The opposite can can also be argued - Joss fetishises (those very same) women.

As long as the story is enjoyable (albeit sometimes such themes CAN wreck a story), who cares?

DARKFLY

Thursday, June 5, 2008 5:42 PM

Thats some of the biggest pile of sh*t ever to grace the internet & she has the issues not Joss, she's taken almost everything out of context & skipped writing why the characters have done most of the actions.

And for the commenters who agree so back to your tv & watch Episode 1-3. Firefly is awesome & Joss in particular is a man who stands up for equality even supports a charity which us Browncoats raise thousands of dollars for everyone.

I really don't get why I read beyond the first paragraph of this disgraceful essay BS.

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KWICKO

Thursday, June 5, 2008 5:44 PM

PUH-LEEZE! This idiot is upset because Zoe takes orders from Mal? What, she shouldn't take orders from her superior in the armed forces during a time or war, or she shouldn't take orders from the captain and owner of the ship she seves on in time of peace? Oooooo-KAY.

Look at the dynamics in the show. Invariably, the female characters are shown as stronger, tougher, smarter, or just *better* peopel than the males. The males are buffoonish, stereotypical "guy" roles, while the women are anything but typical. And this is Joss through and through. I've maintained for a long time that Joss has, ever since about the age of 13, been simply in awe of the power of young women.

To the blogger, I'd just offer this: Joss is a much better feminist than you are a "male-ist". You do nothing but bash men, and claim that somehow THAT is fair. Bullshit. Fair's fair, and if I can't treat a woman a certain way, then you can't do the same to men.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

CRUITHNE3753

Thursday, June 5, 2008 7:24 PM

I've got one little nitpick... Zöe has a career military background, while Mal was a wartime volunteer. Wouldn't be more likely that Zöe would be in the superior position?

PHYRELIGHT

Friday, June 6, 2008 12:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
Going totally off topic, but why does Joss *HAVE* to empower women?

Joss has answered a similar question like this. Several times in one speech, as a matter of fact. My favorite answers are, "Why aren't you asking a hundred other guys why they aren't writing strong female characters?" and, "Because they're hot." In seriousness, he also talks about how his parents influenced him. It's really sweet!

You can see the speech here:

. Meryl Streep's intro speech is pretty awesome too.

Darksiders can keep their cookies. We have better writers.

Grrr. Argghh.

Patiently waiting to see Cap'n Tightpants sing!

DEEPGIRL187

Friday, June 6, 2008 12:44 AM

Weren't we griping over this one a few months ago? It's just as sad and pathetic now as it was then (the blog, not the discussion). It's a shame how some people can only see their own distorted perceptions in a given situation.

****************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

PHYRELIGHT

Friday, June 6, 2008 12:48 AM

Yup. See my comment up towards the top^.

Darksiders can keep their cookies. We have better writers.

Grrr. Argghh.

Patiently waiting to see Cap'n Tightpants sing!

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