Amateur Futurists Check In Here!

POSTED BY: Kwicko
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 1, 2026 17:01
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KIRKULES

Wednesday, June 4, 2008 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Saving energy would be a good first move. If you built better insulated houses using low energy lighting and appliances and gave each a thermopile that would be a good start. A thermopile is a type of geothermal unit. You bury it 300FT under your garden and in the summer you use if as a heat sync pumping the heat from your house into it. Since the ground remains relatively cool compared to the air this makes your AC vastly more efficient. In winter you use a heat exchanger to warm the house from the pile because at that point the ground is significantly warmer than the air. Add in solar water heating to help make up the shortfall and most of your heating needs can be met without burning fuel at all.

Ground source water to air heat pumps are already available now and are super efficient. Every one with a good well or a big enough pond should be using them right now. The initial cost is higher than a standard air to air exchange heat pump, but the cost is quickly recouped. It would probably even be worth drilling a well if you were going to stay in the same house for long enough.

VETERAN

Thursday, June 5, 2008 1:44 AM

Quote:
citizen wrote:
Wednesday, June 04, 2008 04:12
Quote:

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Provided there are sufficient reserves of natural gas, why not revisit steam power? Especially for generating electricity at home.
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Why would you use Natural Gas for steam power?

Well I was responding to the complaint that direct burn of CH4 in an internal combustion engine doesn't produce near as much power as gasoline. You can get a lot of power from steam. Stanely Steamer build a roadster in 1906 that could do 127 mph. Problems are, safety, weight reduction, and warm up times. But I've read some articles regarding new generation steam engines using ceramics and a flash compression system (sort of like a diesel)that eliminate the weight and warm up time issues. VW even had a startup company which was looking into it. Either they hit a dead end or got road blocked because you can't find much on it. Here's a paragraph on it from Wikipedia (so I can't completely vouch for it's accuracy as anyone can edit an article)...

"[edit] Enginion Steamcell
From 1996, a R&D subsidiary of the Volkswagen group called Enginion AG was developing a system called ZEE (Zero Emissions Engine). It produced steam almost instantly without an open flame, and took 30 seconds to reach maximum power from a cold start. Their third prototype, EZEE03, was a three-cylinder unit meant to fit in a Skoda Fabia automobile. The EZEE03 was described as having a "two-stroke" (i.e. single-acting) engine of 1000 cc (164 cubic inch) displacement, producing up to 220 hp (500 N·m or 369 ft·lbf).[7] Exhaust emissions were said to be far below the SULEV standard. It had an "oilless" engine with ceramic cylinder linings using steam instead of oil as a lubricant. However, Enginion found that the market was not ready for steam cars, so they opted instead to develop the "Steamcell" power generator/heating system based on similar technology"

KWICKO

Thursday, June 5, 2008 1:55 AM

It'd be interesting to see that in action. Being a two-stroke would be a big plus - twice as many power strokes per revolution. The problem with two-stroke gas engines is that they tend to use the gas as part of the lubricating system, which means mixing oil in the gas, which means WAAAAAYYY too many pollutants out the tailpipe. But a two-stroke steamer completely gets around that problem...

Hell, even a more efficient internal combustion engine would help. Rotaries still have some issues, but for their size and weight, they make fantastic amounts of power. Their fuel consumption tends to leave something to be desired, though.

Diesels are coming along, in terms of power, reliability, clean emissions, and even noise. I've been wondering why no one has done a diesel-electric hybrid. Well, no one but the railroads... ;P

VETERAN

Thursday, June 5, 2008 1:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
....But the idea does remain the same - every fossil fuel we use now - as fuel - coal, oil, gas - can be replaced with something else just with current technology. People say we need a 'Manhattan Project' for energy. But the only thing between here and there, now and an energy independence - is investment. About a trillion dollars worth, or 1/3 the total cost of the Iraq War.

Ahhhh - what we could have gotten for a fraction of the cost of the Iraq War.....

Yeah it's a shame. But as long as there's big money in oil and no bid government reconstruction projects it's unlikely to change.

VETERAN

Thursday, June 5, 2008 1:59 AM

It says they were going to into home electricty generation. I wonder if it will ever get to market.

FLETCH2

Thursday, June 5, 2008 5:08 AM

There's a submarket in Europe called combined heat and power, basically you generate electricity locally using natural gas of methane then use the waste heat and cooling heat from the generators engine for water and space heating. Some systems use modified diesel engines for the generator others use things like steam or stirling engines.

On the thermopile technology this firm makes something close to what I was talking about, it's a ground to air system, not a ground water to air one, ie a direct transfer sealed loop system.

http://www.earthtoair.com/installation-techniques.php

VETERAN

Friday, June 6, 2008 3:30 AM

Hey Fletch2,

Good link. Here's another https://energyvortex.com/pages/headlinedetails.cfm?id=2199

I've also heard of a variation where a homeowner uses his own influent water pipe for a heat pump. One things for sure, there's a lot of options out there and geothermal is one that can provide a lot of help. Unfortunately, unless you've got a lot of hot springs (like Iceland) it can only provide assistance.

FLETCH2

Friday, June 6, 2008 7:18 PM

I think they need a different name for the average back yard geothermal unit. It's not really geothermal in the way that the hot vents in places like Iceland are... in essence we are really using the Earth more for it's heat inertia than for the actual heating effect. The thermopiles use the fact that 300 ft down the ground stays at a more or less constant temperature, warmer than the air in winter and cooler in summer.

Living in the south my biggest energy cost is cooling. Now AC's have to work hard to transfer heat to already hot outside air, that takes a lot of electrical power. By contrast transfering that same heat to the much cooler ground takes less power. That's where more than half the savings will come from... cooling.

JAYNEZTOWN

Friday, October 24, 2025 7:35 PM

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JAYNEZTOWN

Tuesday, November 4, 2025 3:40 PM

electricity?

Refueling a NUCLEAR REACTOR

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