Objects in Space Inner Thoughts

POSTED BY: est120
UPDATED: Monday, August 2, 2004 12:53
VIEWED: 13986
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SKYDANCE

Saturday, May 8, 2004 3:52 PM

"i actually read the end of HoG differently. Mal was ready to profess his love and she knew it. all she had to do was let him. but then she gives the speech about when you get so attached you never want to leave so she must leave."

Ooh - another one! What if "just tell me" wasn't about her dying, but about someone else dying? Someone she loved? Someone who left her (by dying)? Of course, she'd have to get away from that place, because the memories would be too painful ....

PURPLEBELLY

Saturday, May 8, 2004 4:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skydance:

Ooh - another one! What if "just tell me" wasn't about her dying, but about someone else dying? Someone she loved? Someone who left her (by dying)? Of course, she'd have to get away from that place, because the memories would be too painful ....

How about a political secret? From a high placed Alliance cadre in opposition to the Blue Sun nexus; not an Independent, they're in the dustbin of history. Made aware of an opposition movement, Inara is using her professional cover to fly under the radar of Alliance/BlueSun to connect that opposition (or the True Alliance, if you oppose Blue Sun too). This makes her course parallel to that of the re-activated Book, but that's another theory

STEVE580

Saturday, May 8, 2004 5:03 PM

Did anyone notice that Simon's line, "I would be there right now," is exactly what he says later in his conversation with Kaylee? Just like River repeats Dobson's "They won't stop coming..." comment verbatiam on the Train Job. So it can be assumed that everything she 'heard' is actually spoken at some point in the past or future. I guess mostly that's obvious; but someone suggested that Book and Mal's comments referred simply to their thoughts, and I doubt it. Book probably made his comment in his 'past life', as others have suggested. Inara obviously is referring to the reason she had to leave - whether it's a fatal disease, or what. We know what Simon means, and when he says it. Now Jayne - didn't he say his 'thought' in Ariel? Over the radio? Lastly there's Mal. I'm thinking his is something he hasn't said yet. Maybe not, that's just a guess; there's no way of knowing.

Actually, I just realized that the two who looked at River - Simon and Jayne - are the two who 'say' things they've already said. So perhaps that's why they look at her.
-Steve

NEROLI

Saturday, May 8, 2004 7:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve580:
Did anyone notice that Simon's line, "I would be there right now," is exactly what he says later in his conversation with Kaylee? Just like River repeats Dobson's "They won't stop coming..." comment verbatiam on the Train Job. So it can be assumed that everything she 'heard' is actually spoken at some point in the past or future. I guess mostly that's obvious; but someone suggested that Book and Mal's comments referred simply to their thoughts, and I doubt it. Book probably made his comment in his 'past life', as others have suggested. Inara obviously is referring to the reason she had to leave - whether it's a fatal disease, or what. We know what Simon means, and when he says it. Now Jayne - didn't he say his 'thought' in Ariel? Over the radio? Lastly there's Mal. I'm thinking his is something he hasn't said yet. Maybe not, that's just a guess; there's no way of knowing.

Actually, I just realized that the two who looked at River - Simon and Jayne - are the two who 'say' things they've already said. So perhaps that's why they look at her.
-Steve

I believe that all those thoughts were said or will be said at some point. I think you got it on that one.

On the subject of Jayne and Simon being the only ones that look at her, perhaps that is becuase they are the only two who's thoughts are connected to River herself?

SHINY

Saturday, May 8, 2004 8:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ljosalf:
Auraptor, where you see people dumping on Simon, I see too much uncritical praise for him. He is to be commended for life for not shutting his eyes to what was going on with his sister, for trying to get his parents to act, for acting on his own. The same strong will that led him down that path, however, is both virtue and flaw in his character. He ain't weak, no, but he can be willful and he does act (where River is concerned, certainly) without reflection or considering the consequences. (Mal rakes him over the coals for not thinking before getting strangers involved in his troubles.) When he single-mindedly set out to rescue River you can bet that he never thought through to the realization that he would become a fugitive with a very high price on his head. He obviously became a fugitive before he was prepared for the condition; otherwise, he would have made arrangements to protect his accounts (you know, the ones that got frozen and left him broke?). He is still coming to grips with the wrenching changes in his life. I think he can be forgiven for having an occasional resentful thought--it just means that he is human, thank God. Oh, and he can be a smug, self-righteous pk. Kaylee's right to want him to unbend some.

Just my $0.02.

That's just Joss' genius for creating truly three-dimensional characters, all of whom are flawed, but all of whom you can't help but love or identify with in some way. Simon would be a far less interesting character if he wasn't sometimes willful, short-sighted, or smug.

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NICOLACLARKE

Saturday, May 8, 2004 9:45 PM

Steve580 wrote:

Quote:
So it can be assumed that everything she 'heard' is actually spoken at some point in the past or future.

Yes! I've been scrolling down this thread for the past 10 minutes or so wondering why no-one had mentioned this sooner.

Jayne's line is from the end of 'Ariel', when Mal had him locked out of the cargo bay, while Simon says his later in 'Objects in Space'.

I think River is picking up on the preoccupations of the crew as she passes them - like tuning a radio and picking up snatches of other stations along the way. So from Zoe and Wash she just gets an awareness of shared passion, without words (which is interesting, when you think about it, since Zoe and Wash spend so much of their time exchanging (angry) words). I suspect the reason she picks up nothing from Kaylee is that Kaylee is not a terribly intropective/brooding person, plus she's all focused on the guy whose knee her calves are resting on.

I'd initially assumed that she was hearing things spoken in everyone's past, but that's almost immediately overturned by Simon (although I suppose it is about the past). This opens up some intriguing avenues... Book's line fits very well with what we suspect of his shady past, but what if it's still to come? What might turn him from his pacifism/faith to such an extent? Who might he be saying it to?

I agree that Inara and Mal's lines could well be said to or about each other, or at any rate they could as easily be applied to that relationship as to anything else in their lives. Could suggest a confrontation on the horizon... I like the idea that "I'm a big girl, just tell me" is about her possible terminal illness or similar, but it somehow doesn't sound like the kind of thing you'd expect Inara to say to a doctor. Unless she was very agitated; her composure is generally impeccable, particularly around people she doesn't know well.

Roll on the BDM(s)...

/ pure intentions, juxtaposed /

LIZ

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 5:45 AM

i was just struck by this --
Mal's comment is about his general attitude at this point in his life... not something he would say aloud to anyone... so why can't Inara's comment be the same? "i'm a big girl just tell me" comes from a girl whose entire world is built upon a façade. Maybe she's tired of pretending, tired of putting on a face for others and people doing the same for her. Maybe she is insecure. i remember someone on this board commenting on the men she's chosen so far -- inexperienced young men and one "regular." Ego boosters all.

Quote:
MAL
Well this, the lie of it. That man parading you around on his arm as if he actually won you, as if he loves you, and everyone here actually going along with it.

Everyone knows it's a lie. Maybe the reason she left Sihnon was to see the world and break out of the profession she chose. She just hasn't found a suitable alternative yet.

AVON

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 8:27 AM

One theory which I have never seen mentioned in relation to Book's inner thought is that he might just be talking about how he views his religion, and the religous services he provides to the rest of the crew.

More specificly, perhaps he is responding to his conversation with Jayne in 'the message' about honouring the dead, where Jayne asks whether Book would read over him if he fell. Book avoids the question, but maybe it affected him more than he lets on.

We already know that Mal is not interested in Book's God, and that Jayne believes he might not deserve God, or at least that Book would judge him not worthy of God, despite the fact that we see Book giving some form of service to the bandits in 'Our Mrs Reynolds'.

So maybe all Book is saying is that he dosen't care whether the crew, or anyone else they meet are innocent or not, he will be there for them in a religous sence no matter what, and that it is up to the crew whether they accept that.

SHINYSEVEN

Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:42 PM

Hi, fellow B7 fan! The thing is, though, that Book doesn't look tolerant and forgiving when he says that line (as he would if he were talking to a penitent)--he looks coldly furious.

"Sadistic crap legitimized by florid prose"

PINGJING

Wednesday, July 14, 2004 1:15 AM

On the subject of Jayne and Simon being the only ones that look at her, perhaps that is becuase they are the only two who's thoughts are connected to River herself?

--Neroli

________________________________________________

That's exactly what I thought. And that's why I'm wondering why Inara looks at River. She doesn't react to her the way Simon and Jayne do (she doesn't seem aware that River's there at all) but maybe Inara is in some way connected to River. How they're connected, I really don't know, but I'll think about it.

Also, a couple of people have mentioned that Kaylee didn't say anything in River's mind. That's true, but she did look different. Instead of smiling, relaxed and happy, she stared at River as if she was an intruder. She looked mean, and that's a weird way for Kaylee to look. Anybody have any thoughts on that?

Btw, there are some very insightful comments on this board. Makes for some deep thinking.

Julia

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