Waterboarding- the real deal

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Friday, May 9, 2008 01:12
VIEWED: 11112
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SIGNYM

Sunday, May 4, 2008 3:01 PM

Quote:
The problem with outright outlawing water-boarding and other coercive techniques is that there are instances in real life where they might prove useful.

This goes back to... if a cop shooting an unarmed civilian is useful in one case, should we make it LEGAL? In other words, if this action is useful for 1 in a million encounters between civvies and police should cops get an automatic "pass" on the other 999,999? How much harm would flow from legalizing free-fire on civvies versus how much good?

You haven't made your case that we should make torture legal in all cases because it MIGHT be useful in very rare instances. Have you considered that if you make torture legal then it could be applied indiscriminately in ALL cases? So what would prevent your local PD from ripping off a couple of testicles? It's legal after all, right? So how would you prevent indiscriminate torture if its legal?

All you've done is demonstrate that you're so terrified of what MIGHT happen that you're willing to take a dump on the Constitution and the Geneva Convention. You haven't looked for alternatives to torture, and you haven't even considered a judicial review process that might exonerate its use under extenuating circumstances. You've managed to skip all kinds of steps in-between because your fear has overridden your intellect.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 4, 2008 3:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Don't tell other people they don't get the threat, because they live their lives rather than huddling in a corner crying in a puddle of their own piss. Just because I'm not a coward, doesn't mean I don't get the threat. I can live my life even under the threat of terrorism, because you haven't the bravery to do the same doesn't mean you get the threat more than I do.

OUCH!!!
Score one knock-out by Citizen!!!!
This is the whole thing of it right here- the thing Georgie boy and his pals are playing and depending on- the general cowardice they can whip up, and AU's been whipped up right nice.

Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 4, 2008 3:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Reaverman:

If you were being tried for that, you would regret ... That you were getting in deep shit for defending your family.

No, I'd expect that a jury of my piers would 'get' what I did, or that it might not even get to trial...I think most would understand the Bauer thing...

Quote:

When the gloves come off, and you are teetering on the edge of potentially spending decades locked away as someone's bitch for doing what you saw as the right thing for the situation, you'd be surprised how quickly your holier-than-thou principles of the justness of law, and accepting your fate go right out the window.

Please sir, do not attempt to project the fragility of your own beliefs & convictions upon me.
If I DID get in deep doo for what I did, I certainly wouldn't like it, but for Kirkules and my family to live, it would be a price I could survive with. Or maybe in beating that guy to a pulp I went too far? What? I didn't get any useful info from him? The Feds rescued our families at the last minute without Chrisisall's help? Well, then I broke that guy's knees and fingers for nothing then...maybe I NEED to be locked up for a spell....

In reality though, since our fictional dude is a "THEM", I doubt it would come to very much in the way of jail time.

See, it's a personal responsibility and correct perception thing.

Same Tuneisall

AURAPTOR

Sunday, May 4, 2008 3:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
No, son, you just think the only people who get it are the ones that think just like you. Which, for those that need it spelled out to them, is basically the same thing as thinking "the only one".

Wow. Diagram that up on the chalk board for everyone and label it " Circular Reasoning ". More like Flawed Logic.

Quote:

So do you.

Having no God in the first place, it's rather absurd for you to claim that I want everyone bowing to mine. Point is, I don't care which god/gods you pray to, just keep your bomb vest and exploding cars out of your weekly sermons as some sort of testaments of 'faith', and we'll be peachy.

Quote:
Actually, that's exactly what most of them want. Your inability to grasp that proves you don't understand the threat.

So, Irish Catholics want to take over the world, right ? I missed the decree by his Holiness from Rome declaring a Crusade on all non believers. Was that JP2 or Benedict XVI ?

Quote:
]You're insulting ignorance of anything outside of your own front yard only proves you don't have a clue.

So, I'm smart enough to know that we're all knowingly supporting the Irish terrorist, but still not smart enough to know what they want, or know anything beyond my front yard, right ? Sorry Skippy, can't have it both ways. Pick one.

Quote:
Domestic issues? That just goes to prove how little perspective you have, and how afraid you are. Don't tell other people they don't get the threat, because they live their lives rather than huddling in a corner crying in a puddle of their own piss. Just because I'm not a coward, doesn't mean I don't get the threat. I can live my life even under the threat of terrorism, because you haven't the bravery to do the same doesn't mean you get the threat more than I do.

Don't compare your irrational fear of Muslims under your bed to reality, doing so shows how little you understand the real threat.

Oh yes, you're quite brave. Calling the threat from Muslims " irrational " , are ya ? Man, stick that head any further up your own ass, it'll make ya gag. No amount of facts or evidence can sway you so I'm not going to bother any more. Your willful ignorance is beyond any point of reason or sense. I only hope you're not confused by some Jihadist for another free thinking Dutch film director, or .... oh screw it. Talking to you is a complete waste of time anyways.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

FLETCH2

Sunday, May 4, 2008 3:54 PM

Any argument based on the concept that you have to do whatever it takes to protect civilian lives falls completely flat on it's face in a country without universal healthcare. Healthcare is a civil defense function even without a pandemic or bioattack. If Joe citizen is worth the time, money and moral "lapses" to defend at any cost, why don't you protect him against catastrophic illness.

Talking about the IRA the boyo's recognized something years ago that Al Queda and co should realize.

Kill people and it just makes people REALLY pissed with you, it makes them far far more likely to come after you and far less likely to do what you want. Destroy property, especially stuff that is really expensive and government pays far more attention.

To you and me 9/11 is about 3000 folks that started into an average day and then had something horrific happen to them. It's about families left without loved ones. That's the horror they sell on the TV news to get us to tow the line.

In truth though it cost what? I have seen an estimate that by the time you take rebuilding, insurance bailouts to airlines etc into account it's around $360B. I suspect the drastic measures are there to prevent THAT from happening again.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 4, 2008 3:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Calling the threat from Muslims " irrational " , are ya ?

Reading requires that you pay attention- I believe he said the FEAR of the threat is irrational.
I'm curious AU, do you walk the streets lookin' over your shoulder for the random terrorist that might git ya? 'Cause Citizen lives in a country that had quite a few BOMBS go off in it- just wonderin' how it is you can be all superior to him regarding this....

EDIT: My brother-in-law was working in Manhattan that day- saw the planes hit, the bodies fall, and he NEVER sounds like you do, AU...how'd YOU get so frightened?

Living in terror Chrisisall

AURAPTOR

Sunday, May 4, 2008 3:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Bow to their god, live by their rules, or else. Sounds an awful lot like what BushCo is offering the Middle East.

- Wow. That makes the list of most idiotic comments EVER posted on RWED. Congrats. Too bad you've got absolutely nothing to back it up, but then if you had, there'd be no nomination in the 1st place!

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By your silly attempts to blow this out of all proportion, you've only shown how much you've over-hyped the threat. I simply refuse to live my life worrying about things that are less likely to happen than (a) a tornado striking my home, (b) a hurricane wiping out my city, (c) lightning striking me, or (d) being killed in a car wreck. All of these scenarios are FAR, FAR more likely to occur to me on a daily basis than my being killed or targeted by terrorists.

By your kind of reasoning, ANY AND ALL measures that would cut down traffic deaths are not only "okay", but necessary and mandatory. I guess you're a big proponent of traffic cameras, photo radar, et al. After all, it's not Big-Brother-ism, it's just "security", and what could ever possibly be wrong with that? No one in this country has EVER gotten carried away or misused such power, right?

Mike

Only a moron, a complete imbecile will compare accidents in nature to premeditated acts of heartless, intentional violence against their fellow man. I'll give you every chance to reconsider your hapless words and hope that you misspoke out of frustration and ignorance, and that you really don't mean what you post. For the sake of your image , I hope you retract those silly remarks.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

AURAPTOR

Sunday, May 4, 2008 4:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Calling the threat from Muslims " irrational " , are ya ?
Reading requires that you pay attention- I believe he said the FEAR of the threat is irrational.
I'm curious AU, do you walk the streets lookin' over your shoulder for the random terrorist that might git ya? 'Cause Citizen lives in a country that had quite a few BOMBS go off in it- just wonderin' how it is you can be all superior to him regarding this....

EDIT: My brother-in-law was working in Manhattan that day- saw the planes hit, the bodies fall, and he NEVER sounds like you do, AU...how'd YOU get so frightened?

Living in terror Chrisisall

No fear here, which is why I posted my remarks as I did. I won't succumb to the false presumptions that others want to lay at my feet and try to paint me as something I'm not. Homie don't play dat game!

I can't speak for your bother in law. He works there, likely he's a liberal ? I don't know, but it could be he's ignorant of world affairs, and thinks everyone should just " get along " , and is not recognizing the ones who did this or why.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CITIZEN

Sunday, May 4, 2008 4:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Wow. Diagram that up on the chalk board for everyone and label it " Circular Reasoning ". More like Flawed Logic.

Not really, please don't use terms you don't understand. For you that generally translates to "remain silent and listen" at all times.

Quote:
Having no God in the first place, it's rather absurd for you to claim that I want everyone bowing to mine. Point is, I don't care which god/gods you pray to, just keep your bomb vest and exploding cars out of your weekly sermons as some sort of testaments of 'faith', and we'll be peachy.

George Bush and Rush Limbaugh are your Gods, and you wish to force American culture and values on everyone, so what I said still stands.

Quote:
So, Irish Catholics want to take over the world, right ? I missed the decree by his Holiness from Rome declaring a Crusade on all non believers. Was that JP2 or Benedict XVI ?

Yes, I get you're dumb, no need to keep proving it

.

I was talking about the fact that most of Muslims terrorism is about getting 'us' out of 'their' lands, such as Saudi Arabia and Chechnya in the case of Russia.

Quote:
So, I'm smart enough to know that we're all knowingly supporting the Irish terrorist, but still not smart enough to know what they want, or know anything beyond my front yard, right ? Sorry Skippy, can't have it both ways. Pick one.

I'm not trying to have it both ways Mary, you're making things up, and contradicting yourself. At first you said that 97% of Americans didn't know, and then you say you all do, are you just being a colossally thick tool, or are you trolling because that's all your meagre intelligence is capable of? It's both isn't it. The rest of that, apart from barely making sense in your child-like moron script, is about stuff I never said.

Quote:
Oh yes, you're quite brave. Calling the threat from Muslims " irrational " , are ya ?

Not really, but I don't count carrying on my life as normal with the minuscule possibility of a terrorist attack brave. But it's braver than wetting yourself and crying for the government to make you safe because of it. I'm highlighting that your acting like a colossal coward, not saying that I'm acting particularly brave.

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Man, stick that head any further up your own ass, it'll make ya gag.

If my head was anywhere near my 'ass' I'd certainly take your advice. I know for a fact you're about the most experienced here in the regard of head-in-anus syndrome.

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No amount of facts or evidence can sway you so I'm not going to bother any more.

No, I just don't assume Rush Limbaugh's latest Racist rant is 'evidence', unlike his intellectually challenged followers.

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Your willful ignorance is beyond any point of reason or sense.

Err, no, but thanks for copy pasting my last post and sending it back at me, it's always fun to see you respond to me with what I just said like some mental retard. Hold, what do I mean 'like'?

Quote:
I only hope you're not confused by some Jihadist for another free thinking Dutch film director, or .... oh screw it. Talking to you is a complete waste of time anyways.

On the contrary, I hope a Jihadist DOES confuse you for a 'free thinking Dutch film director', rather than the small minded angry cowardly tool you are, because your continued existence is a complete waste of time, bubbye

It's not those that use the term, "American-Fascists" who are sullying the name of America, it's AURaptor...

"i guess that makes me a troll.." AntiMason

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 4, 2008 4:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

No fear here

Your words betray you. Your fear is apparent.

Quote:
He works there, likely he's a liberal ? I don't know, but it could be he's ignorant of world affairs, and thinks everyone should just " get along " , and is not recognizing the ones who did this or why.

He was one of the first to say we needed to stand behind Bush's plan to zap...well...SOMEONE...and when he saw up drop Afghanistan to back burner status in favour of Iraq, he called BS. See, he knows the score, as I 'spect most who actually LIVED through a bombing in any country do- they tend to make it a priority. You just cherry pick your facts to sublimate your fear IMO.

Chrisisall

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