Waterboarding- the real deal
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Friday, May 9, 2008 01:12
VIEWED: 11112
PAGE 10 of 23
"neither of you have the intellectual fortitude to face this very serious issue"
So basically, you're so lazy, violent, stupid, or dishonest you say it's either torture, or nothing.
Got it.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:I’ve never said that, nor could any honest person find that in anything I have said. Which once again, demonstrates my point. Until you can grasp the issue with some degree of honesty, please keep this hatred to yourself.
Originally posted by rue:
"neither of you have the intellectual fortitude to face this very serious issue"
So basically, you're so lazy, violent, stupid, or dishonest you say it's either torture, or nothing.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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You never asked what I, or SignyM, would do rather than torture. You never considered how torture might be riskier for the country as a general concept in a democracy and as a specific practice which garners enemies.
For you, it's either torture, or nothing.
Got it. Again.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:? Riverlove is unclear.
Originally posted by Kirkules:
That's a bunch of bull, and your moral equivalency of the issue puts you in the Rev. Wright category.
Quote:If I were convinced he knew info that would keep our families alive, I'd break whatever bone in his body I needed to to get it, and later, I'd expect to be tried for my actions, which I'd hope would be seen as justifiable under the circumstances...see, cause torturing peeps should be AGAINST THE LAW. Like I would speed to the hospital if my Wife was in labour, and hope a police officer wouldn't give me a ticket once he knew why I did it. Sometimes you break the law for a justifiable reason, but that doesn't mean you're not breaking the law. And for a government to cover their collective asses by making something magically legal for them to do that other governments and regular citizens would be condemned, invaded or imprisoned for is just sheer hypocrisy.
If the Kirkules family and the Chrisisall family were being held by terrorists and were going to be beheaded in one hour, I would have no problem turning over a terrorist captive to Chrisisall for interrogation.
EDIT: but please remember that the above example Kirkules posed is a TV-like one, and in all probability would NEVER HAPPEN.
OK? Are we real here?
Chrisisall
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Quote:Actually, I’ve considered all those things. You however, have no interest in what I consider or what I think. You labeled me “evil” and Sigym labeled me an “idiot” before either of you had any idea what I think, simply because it is easier to despise someone instead of dealing with this complex issue yourself.
Originally posted by rue:
You never asked what I, or SignyM, would do rather than torture. You never considered how torture might be riskier for the country as a general concept in a democracy and as a specific practice which garners enemies.
For you, it's either torture, or nothing.
Got it. Again.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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You say you've thought about all of it. Then you know that torture doesn't work, harms the US politically across the globe, decreases security, diminishes constitutional protections and democracy, and is never going to add up on a balance sheet (except in the fevered imaginations of "24" writers) - and you endorse it anyway.
So, what are my choices to describe you ? You tell me.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:To be fair Finn, you are sometimes almost cryptically vague in your responses...I know that I personally have to read past the actual words you sometimes type here to recognize that not only are you not "evil", your beliefs are actually more in line with those of James Kirk than Khan Noonian Singh...
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You however, have no interest in what I consider or what I think.
Just an observationisall
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Quote:All absolutely true...but cut us some slack Rue, remember that most of us here were raised by 60's, 70's, & 80's TV, not actual hands-on parents...it's no wonder that our perceptions of reality are, shall we say, infected with a propensity towards drama.
Originally posted by rue:
torture doesn't work, harms the US politically across the globe, decreases security, diminishes constitutional protections and democracy, and is never going to add up on a balance sheet (except in the fevered imaginations of "24" writers)
Dirty Harry Chrisisall
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What I want is for our officers to understand how important our laws are...how important our constitution is, how above all those things are to be upheld by them...
so that, if it came down to it and they felt a moral imperitive to do something against our laws for the sake of this country's immediate safety, they would not make the decision based on whether or not they could get into trouble. They would make the decision based on an unquibbleable neccesity,
and that yet, they would be so beholden to our country's ideals that they would understand why laws against such actions must be in existence and must be enforced. They shouldn't be going so far out of their way trying to cover their own asses at the expense of our country's core values. They shouldn't be prying the door wide open for easy abuse for anybody who wishes to use the cover of patriotism for something more nefarious. Frankly, I can't understand why any of you would want that.
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Quote:Zactly.
Originally posted by Righteous9:
They shouldn't be prying the door wide open for easy abuse for anybody who wishes to use the cover of patriotism for something more nefarious.
Succinct Chrisisall
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