Polygamist Pedophiles and Papal Pontifications
POSTED BY: deadlockvictim
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 01:32
VIEWED: 23329
PAGE 17 of 28
Quote:Frem, even YOU said that several actionable cases had been overlooked by the authorities. Hell, even I read about this group over a year ago in the LA Times. Doesn't this information count for "reasonable suspicion"?
without even a reasonable suspicion
I understand your desire for teh State to conduct itself according to precedure, and I'd like to see that as well but I think you're SO focused on that aspect of this case that you're forgetting that this religion has had a pretty long record of abusive practices.... like, dumping teenage boys out in the middle of nowhere to make breeding room for the patriarchs.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Frem, even YOU said that several actionable cases had been overlooked by the authorities. Hell, even I read about this group over a year ago in the LA Times. Doesn't this information count for "reasonable suspicion"?
To get a warrant based on THAT information, arrest the named guilty parties and those complict and charge them, and try them for the crime ?
To temporarily remove custody rights while the case is processed ?
Heck yes.
To cook up a bullshit warrant, go on a fishing expedition and seperate every parent of that belief from their kids permanently without even an accusation of wrongdoing ?
Heck no.
I haven't for a moment forgotten what FLDS is guilty of, or rather individuals within it are - but that's the thing, you can no more legally stomp this religion for that than you could stomp the entire Catholic Church for the same.
Look, listen for a moment, ok ?
Folks bought that phone call and started calling for heads, and tore mine off for even suggesting it was bogus - but it was, wasn't it ?
Folks bought the warrant too, and now that falls - and if you think they're gonna throw out the search just because it was illegal, considering how many other laws they have violated at this point, you're dreaming, they will throw the done is done card and claim greater good and play on folks sympathies with the help of a compliant media, and no one much is gonna care cause it ain't them, ain't their kids.... yet.
And just look at the pregnancy issue, look at some of the bullshit that has been thrown, and blown to bits -
Claim of 13yr pregnant girls - straight bullshit, that one.
Claim of 60+ girls under 17 - unsubstantiated, and in some of the cases where the girls age is in dispute, the State is refusing to accept the evidence of birth certificates they themselves issued.
Half of them pregnant, which amounts to 30 pregnancies - blatantly false.
20 confirmed pregnancies total, and we're talkin more than 60 girls now, the State keeps changing their story so fast that in truth, no one knows, only FIVE of which were initially even suspect of being underage, and in that case if they wanna go with a DNA check, there's cause...
TO GET A FREAKIN WARRANT.
Not just ignore the rules and take, a doctors quick checkover and estimate would be sufficient to procure a warrant quite speedily from a judge, with valid probable cause and reason - but they skipped that step cause they didn't feel any need, any pressure, to obey the law.
Which means either that they get a pass on behavior *I* would like to see someone prosecuted for, or we throw in the towel and admit we have no rights the State doesn't feel like giving us.
That's a lose-lose situation, you ask me.
To allow the State to do it this way is to sacrifice all of our rights, to open ourselves up to the same treatment, and beyond which, I believe those girls deserve better than being dumped into the trash heap of the TX Foster Care system, but without any real support, and a lynch mob on the other side, that's GOING to happen - and do the math.
That means they will suffer even MORE, dumped into a culture where their beliefs are unwelcome, unwanted, cause for scorn and derision, some of them possibly far behind educationally, in a foreign environment that's already proven itself quite hostile to them - and it's a statistical guarantee that once within that system some of them WILL face abuse, verbal, physical, sexual, and possible forcible medication and neglect on top of it.
And it's GOING to happen, at this point, so all we have done is move them from one abusive culture, to a more abusive culture in the most traumatic fashion possible, and then abandon them.
By the time this is over, even those parents who can prove their innocence, since we have gone napoleonic law on this, seemingly - ain't gonna get their kids back, for the most part, and I cannot be ok with that, I just can't.
At this point there's really no going back, the State has broken so many of it's own laws that any admission of such wou
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
6-ix
"Let's see, aside from sensationalistic media reports, exactly what proof Rue has regarding what did and did not go on within that community, shall we?"
Pregnant underage girls ? I don't know how much more proof you need than that. "According to the West Texas TV station, investigators removed 60 children under 17, mostly girls -- half of whom, they report, are now pregnant -- from the gated compound built by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Schleicher County."
There are several ways to address these facts:
They aren’t real (the Rap 'head up the butt' approach)
All those girls got pregnant without sex
The 50% pregnancy rate of underage girls doesn't indicate a widespread culture of pedophilia (and statutory rape)
Though it's all true, it's OK because it was girls, not boys; because it was LDS not Catholics; or some other reason.
So however you want to address these facts as proof of what went on there, the next step is up to you.
And no, I don't feel the need to apologize b/c my post was based on facts.
***************************************************************
BTW this does get back to the topic of 'disappeared' children. What this is, is yet another instance, albeit a large-scale one, of people disappearing their children in order to do things to them that are illegal.
I'm sure the Auraptors and Heros and Finns love it when you talk about WMDs that were never found in Iraq Rue.
Funny how you think lies are possible in one situation and not in another. Let's ask any of them again and I'm sure they can give you novels of information again backing up the "FACT" that there were indeed weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Your ability to discerne exactly which "facts" are fact in any given situation are staggering.
There is one word for you Rue. Hypocrite.
And THAT'S a fact.
And if you don't apologize for your previous offhanded statement that I support pedophilia en masse, which was built entirely upon your imagination, your unwavering desire to always be right, your wish to tarnish my name in the process, not to mention that there is not a single fact to back it up, you can still go fuck yourself.
Regards,
6SJ
EDIT: Man oh man Frem.... the frustration you've had to deal with since I've gone. Not only have I vomited in my throat at least 3 separate times reading Rue's responses in here over the last week, but I can actually say that he/she scares the ever loving shit out of me now.
Rue is Big Brother.
I need a Hero, or an Auraptor, or a Finn..... at least thier support of big brother tactics tend to focus on events that we're doing to other countries. Rue's outright condoning the police state within our own borders.
See ya on the waterboard Rue. You know you're going to be right there with me when they torture you till you say you believe there were WMD's in Iraq.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
There is one word for you Rue. Hypocrite.
And THAT'S a fact.
Regards,6SJ
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Actually, you folks are the ones being driven by an agenda that has nothing to do with facts, not me.
Frem, for example keeps talking about how "you can no more legally stomp this religion for that than you could stomp the entire Catholic Church for the same." Next time the catholic church preaches underage marriage to much older men and underage pregnancy as a tenet of faith, AND suborns the parents into foisting that practice off on their little girls, let me know, OK ? B/c that is what distinguishes the two, and to gloss over that and pretend they are the same is just plain stupid (or dishonest).
That's just one example of pure emotion-driven go se. And the more hysterical (and unsupported) the posts become, the less and less credible they are.
Personally, I'm willing to wait to be proved out, just like I was with Iraq. And when I'm proven right - that there were multiple married underage girls who were pregnant or had children by much older men - as a matter of policy - I'll come back and say I told you so. And gloat just a little on how eager you are to be manipulated.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Show me actual chuch documentation making those claims, in writing, instead of press accounts from sources that have upon examination been proven fake in almost every instance.
And you're a fine one to talk about emotion-driven bullshit, since it was you who suggested that the law be violated in this public lynching.
Yeah, you'll wait, while families are destroyed without even a hint of accusation, simply because of what they chose to believe, as is their right no matter how offensive either of us may find it.
And then gloat, sure, while children we should have handled with kid gloves and helped with a treatment and counselling program get apathetically dumped on the trash heap cause they were never more than excuse to begin with.
Frankly, you disgust me, your zealotry and agenda has blinded you to the consequences of the matter, none of which you seem to care about.
But it's no more sense talking to you about this as it is trying to discuss those Iraqi WMDs with zealots of another stripe - you see what you wish to see and be damned to the evidence.
And then, having reveled in the destruction, you expectedly exit stage left...
Leaving me and mine in the darkness, cussing you and trying to pick up the pieces.
-F
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:How do you know it's permanent? Everything I've read so far says it's temporary.
seperate every parent of that belief from their kids permanently
Quote:Yeah, like they would document it. But since several men have been indicted and convicted of this, especially the "prophet" and church leader Warren Jeffs, and children who have left or thrown out ((including the "lost boys") say the same, it seems the evidence says this is so.
Show me actual chuch documentation making those claims
Quote:You're not the ONLY force for good in society Frem!
Leaving me and mine in the darkness, cussing you and trying to pick up the pieces.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Frem
"Frankly, you disgust me, your zealotry and agenda has blinded you ..."
Unlike your claims, I have no agenda in this, neither pro- nor anti-polygamy. And I can see how a woman, who defines her self-worth in terms of marriage and children, might opt for it. For those polygamist women who live out their lives as regular folk it might have an extra attraction over regular marriage. Look at it this way - you get to present yourself to the society around you as at least having been married and get that social validation, you get your kids to focus on and to validate the purpose of your personal existence, and you don't have to deal much with an ongoing adult relationship in addition to having to deal with your kids and society in general.
As long as the people making the decision are adults with real options, and aren't using the state to fund their lifestyle, I have no issues at all with the basic concept.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I was going to start this with "a friend of a friend" which in this case happens to be true but has all kinds of other connotations.
Anyhow, a friend of mine was good friends with a Polygamist family that had been stable for many years. All three members were smart professional types and the family group had no children. I can see how folks can make it work without there being self worth issues. In the end folks get into relationships because they see something in the other person and I can see how that can happen in a relationship with more than two people. However I think that working dynamic is quite rare and I just cant see that working out for most people.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
UUhhmm - I too have known (not in the biblical sense, speaking of connotations) a man with two wives. But there were all sorts of jealously issues and tensions there.
There is, apparently, a fairly large number of women - in the thousands - in polygamous marriages who 'pass' as divorcees in the regular world.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME