Polygamist Pedophiles and Papal Pontifications
POSTED BY: deadlockvictim
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 01:32
VIEWED: 23329
PAGE 16 of 28
Quote:Nope. I’ve always known you were of the female persuasions.
Originally posted by SignyM:
No, not a man. Most people assumed I was a guy altho Chris had me figured out a long time ago! I hope that doesn't change how people view me in the future.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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This is all I have time for, but I feel the rhetoric needs some counterweight:
Several calls were made to the Newbridge Family Shelter in San Angelo Texas March 29 and March 30 from a female claiming to be Sarah who was trying to get out of the FLDS. The shelter unfortunately didn't have the ability to trace those calls. As far as the shelter was concerned, and as far as their contact with the police, it was a genuine case of abuse. It was those calls that triggered the April 3 raid.
"Shelter employees in Texas said Friday they continue to believe their call was authentic despite the reports about Swinton, a shelter spokeswoman said. "They think it's legitimate, that Sarah really does exist," said Susan Risdon, who talked with the shelter's director Friday about the issue. "She had so much information about what was going on at the compound. If it was this woman in Colorado, she would have had to have someone on the inside feeding her information."
Among the convincing details offered by the 16-year-old was the girl's assertion that she had borrowed a communal cell phone used by FLDS men who leave the compound to work, Risdon said. Other details offered by the girl "checked out" after investigation by Texas police, leading shelter employees to continue to believe the story, Risdon said."
At some point a caller or several callers called Flora Jessop in Arizona reportedly on March 30 and for two weeks thereafter, making a number of claims over time. But this person did NOT claim to be 'Sarah' at the FLDS, rather the caller claimed to be a different girl in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
"It's not yet clear whether authorities suspect Rozita Swinton, 33, of Colorado Springs, made the calls that triggered the April 3 raid on the compound. The arrest warrant affidavit released Wednesday says that several calls alleging abuse there were made using several phone numbers, including the (one) number linked to Swinton."
"(Jessop) I first got a call on March 30, about 8:30 in the morning, from what I presumed to be a young girl that claimed to be 16 years old in Colorado City. She gave me addresses in Colorado City that she was presumably in. And it's interesting for me to hear that she was arrested in Colorado for claiming to be a 13-year-old girl locked up in a basement because that's one of the claims that this girl had made to me about Colorado City. She claimed that she was being sexually abused by her father. She claimed that she was the twin sister of the girl, Sarah, who was in Texas. She claimed that she was supposed to be being sent to Texas a month after being married. Just a number of things."
It's not clear at what point the connection was made between calls made to an Arizona organization about Colorado Springs, and calls made to a separate organization in Texas about Texas FLDS. In fact, I can't imagine any circumstance where the two might be logically connected. And so, I wouldn't automatically assume the Texas authorities knew, or even suspected, that the calls were a hoax based on calls made to Arizona. But at some point, and it may have been long after the raid, one of the several numbers for the Jessop / Arizona calls (but not the Texas FLDS calls) was traced to Swinton.
Until such time as someone can show me the Texas authorities knew the calls were a hoax before going into the raid, I will assume they were going on information given to them by the Texas woman's shelter, and in good faith
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Arrrghh!
I hope to hell no one makes an issue out of it, but some purchases have been made, and one really, really damn foolish one.
Can't get into details, but can hope like hell it doesn't provoke anything, can't I ?
*wince*
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Frem
I've noticed that, sadly, you make two opposite arguments:
1) they acted outside their authority
2) if they acted within their authority then they have too damn much of it.
In neither case can you allow yourself to consider the notion that the state might actually have had a legitimate interest and lawful authority when it came to child abuse.
As to the overall picture, it wasn't 1 or 2 isolated cases of abuse that needed to be weeded out, it was community-wide. Given the situation, the choices devolve two ways:
1) leave the girls in a society you KNOW is rampantly abusive AND continue the abuse through the next generations
2) remove the girls so that they MIGHT find a better life AND try to break the chain of abuse.
I would not have done things they way they were done. But, as I said before, until you can bring me FACTS to show the raid was concocted I'll assume that it was done from a legitimate interest. And once underage pregnant 'sister-wives' were discovered Pandora's box was open and there was no going back.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Evidence - Police admission of intent to misuse educational inspections as a method to "get at" the compound and snoop.
Evidence - Police had a "Plan on the shelf" to break into the compound and search it, awaiting an excuse.
Evidence - Police, when pressed about the warrant being based on false information, don't care, as it "Doesn't matter" that it was bogus.
And there is ZERO doubt Swinton made those calls.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=3152807
And, here's the clincher, the real columbo ringer that tells me they knew it was fake.
http://www.eldoradosuccess.com/Pages/RANGERS.html
"Once officers had gained access to the property, investigators obtained a second warrant based on evidence they witnessed regarding possible sexual assault."
You know, I'd like to see what that evidence was, myself - how'd YOU like to be arrested and slung in lockup cause your nineteen year old daughter is pregnant and someone thought she looked underage, eh ?
Normally using a bullshit warrant to gain entry for a fishing expedition, and then obtaining a second warrant on anything you find during such a search is illegal as all hell, but thanks to that suspiciously well-timed supreme court ruling, they'll be getting a pass on that.
I say they knew, or highly suspected that the info was bullshit, but processed the warrant anyway because they were looking for an excuse.
AND, that does not excuse repeated, continual violations of procedure, regs and the law itself on behalf of the authorities, which is a matter of record no one ELSE seems to care about.
And let me make this crystal clear to you.
All this shit has passed, all this hell and misery and severing of custody and foster placement and DNA testing and asset seizure...
And yet...
NOT ONE SINGLE CRIMINAL CHARGE HAS BEEN FILED WHAT SO EVER.
Explain that to me, if you would.
You wanted a lynching, well, you got one.
-F
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Frem,
"Police admission of intent to misuse educational inspections" Where is that admission ?
"Police had a "Plan on the shelf" to break into the compound" Where is that plan? Last I heard they had to get a last-minute 'cultural sensitivity' expert to figure out how to approach the compounds leaders.
"Police, when pressed about the warrant being based on false information, don't care," Well, when they found many underage sister-wives they probably realized there was more going on than 1 Sarah Barlow that they needed to address.
"I say they knew, or highly suspected that the info was bullshit ..."
Why is that ? How exactly were they supposed to have known ? You keep saying that but you have zero to go on. So I'll be happy if you can tell me - how did they know ?
"Normally using a bullshit warrant to gain entry ... but thanks to that suspiciously well-timed supreme court ruling, they'll be getting a pass on that."
I'm guessing probably not. The ruling came well after the raid. Except for telecoms, I don't see any retroactive immunity going around.
"And yet... NOT ONE SINGLE CRIMINAL CHARGE HAS BEEN FILED WHAT SO EVER. Why is that ?"
I'm guessing because they can't figure out who's the mom and who's the dad and who's therefore legally responsible for the welfare of the child. Hence, DNA.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
In neither case can you allow yourself to consider the notion that the state might actually have had a legitimate interest and lawful authority when it came to child abuse.
Bullshit.
There is a procedure for this.
The State of Texas violated that procedure, from top to bottom, and in this case went far beyond even perceived authority.
The terminated parental rights without even a reasonable suspicion, based soley on the religion these people chose to practice, without any evidence, or even accusation of actual abuse.
THAT made it an issue.
You constantly rave about how Anarchists would reduce us to "rule of the gun" then you must at this point explain to me how this is not such a thing.
If the State can say fuck the law, fuck regs, fuck the constitution and just do whatever the hell they please anyway, WHILE holding the folks on the business end of the gun barrel to standards they themselves have chosen not to abide by...
Where's the fucking difference ?
And since it's come down to rule of the gun, some folk have decided, in spite of my every effort to the contrary, to put more cards in their own decks, which I think is stupid and an unwise provocation, but I don't at all blame them if this is what your so-called "law and order" comes down to at the end of the day.
I think you and I both know some folk here not guilty of anything are never gonna get their kids back in this, how would you like that to have been YOU ?
And start thinkin real hard about what happens when the State gets away with it here thanks to the support of the lynch mob, and then tries it against another obscure bunch who's decided to take both sides to hell rather than let it happen to them.
To date, the State has not only not shown a single iota of evidence of abuse, they've not even filed a single charge of it.
Till they have, none of their actions based on mere suspicion and guilt by association means a damn thing other than the fact that they outgun the people they have over the barrel.
And if you think THAT message didn't get across to other reclusive religious people very goddamn fast, think again... and their response to it is givin me the twitchies.
-F
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Sigh ... just read my post above. And try to get up at least a little outrage about undereducated underage sister-wives, will you ?
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Let's turn that around.
Show me evidence, absolute proof of your own assertions first.
You wanna call, you show me YOUR cards before I hand over mine.
Give me something other than the lies and distortions you've thrown in my face this whole thread, if you wanna actually discuss the merits of the matter, for once.
-F
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Well, Frem, there was not a whole lot I credited the news stories with. There were a few items that seemed significant. One indisputable fact is the high percentage of underage mothers. Another is that these little girls call each other sister-wives. Another is that, in this supposedly highly controlled and godly community I can't imagine these little girls fornicating in sin to such an extent as to have a 50% underage pregnancy rate. It all adds up to underage girls being destined to be brood mares for older men, in a very community-sanctioned way.
There are other items I do wonder about, and am briefly scanning the news for. One is sex ratios. If the older guys are getting all or most of the young girls, what about the boys when they become men ? The sex ratios of the children didn't seem right nor did the sex ratios of the adults (and there are stories of men being banned while their wives are 'given' to someone else), but I'm waiting for hard data on that.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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