Firefly, ala Shakespeare.....

POSTED BY: JRC
UPDATED: Friday, April 25, 2008 12:51
VIEWED: 6226
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NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LeopardFlan:
We're having to read Romeo&Juliet, and it is boring, and stupid.

If you can find it, look at the Zifferelli film, from like 1968- It's available on DVD, I own a copy. Olivia Hussey as Juliet,can't remember who played Romeo, Michael York as a very nasty Tybalt. Youngish, unknown actors as the leads, and it's so beautiful it'll make your eyes pop.

It may be stupid-- I agree that they make a couple of bad choices-- but don't just watch it with your eyes and mind- try to FEEL what those characters are feeling-- any of them. R & J in overwhelming young love, Mercutio looking for fun and comedy and getting killed, Tybalt and Lady Capulet long on pride and revenge, Old Capulet brought down at the end by loss. even the Nurse, bawdy and wise and loving.

Also if you can get it, look at Shakespeare in Love, from a few years ago. It's a fanciful but realistic look at how R & J could have been written

SPACEANJL

Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:58 PM

Do you guys get the 'Orange' phone ads? 'Cos that is just ripe for the piss-taking.

Y'know, if Romeo and Juliet had had the right talk-plan, there would have been no need for all the poison and priest stuff...

On the plus side, there is a good sword fight in the play.

DONCOAT

Wednesday, April 23, 2008 9:44 PM

I'd just like to say that I think the linked page is one of the very finest examples of Firefliana (Serenitiana?) I've ever come across.

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I'm pointin' right at it!

HUGHFF

Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LeopardFlan:
We're having to read Romeo&Juliet, and it is boring, and stupid. Everyone has plots within plots and nobody knows what anyone's doing, and there are about a million different ways they could have tried to get their goal.

The play is, contrary to popular belief, not so much about love. The only "love" is teenage hormonal lust: Romeo and Juliet (aged 17 and 13 respectively) are horny and get married so they can have sex. (In fact, 5 minutes before he met Juliet, Romeo was panting all over her cousin Rosaline.)

More important, from my perspective (I teach this play) is the conflict between the generations. Romeo's relationship with his parents is so dysfunctional that he never speaks to them at all - in fact, Benvolio has to act as a go-between for them because they're so concerned.

Juliet's relationship with Capulet is even more upsetting. In Act I, both say that they will only consider Juliet marrying Paris if the other agrees. "My will to her consent is but a part..." he says and she counters, "...no more deep will I endart mine eye than your consent gives strength to make it fly." However, in the next act, she marries Romeo without mentioning him to her father (obviously she realises he wouldn't allow it.) Less than 24 hours later he promises Paris that she will marry him.

When Juliet defies him on this (again obviously, she can't give the reason) he forces her to do as he commands. In fact, his threat to cut her off is incredibly powerful and would have reduced her to prostitution or begging to survive. "An you be mine, I give you to my friend; An you be not, hang, beg, starve, die in the streets, for, by my soul, I'll ne'er acknowledge thee nor what is mine shall never do thee good."

You can then discuss the analogous action to Capulet/Juliet, which is Capulet/Tybalt. Like Juliet, Tybalt lets his emotions cloud his common sense, though in his case it is anger - he discovers Romeo at the party and plans to kill him. Capulet cuts him down to size and forbids it, again with considerable force. Foreshadowing Juliet defying Capulet, Tybalt seeks Romeo out the next morning to kill him, well aware that the penalty for ths is his own execution.

This is the essential generational conflict: the older generation wrap the younger one up too tightly, treating teenagers like children and denying them the chance to learn from their mistakes. Meanwhile the youths assume that adults don't understand them and deliberately do what they have already decided rather than asking if their parent's (or uncle's for Tybalt) extra experience gives them a deeper insight.

Of course there's no right answer to this problem and Shakespeare, keen observer of human foibles that he was, doesn't try to point one out. He simply "lets" the events unfold to their inevitable conclusion given the "tragic character flaws" or "errors of judgement" (harmatia.) Tybalt's rebellion leads to him murdering Mercutio, scion of the Prince, while R and J's little rebellion not only leads to their suicides but also the death of Paris (why Romeo, why?) and, arguably, Lady Montague, who passes away in the night from grief less than two days after her son is banished.

As far as boring: You have two massive sword fights (Tybalt v Mercutio which segues into Tybalt v Romeo in Act III, Romeo v Paris in Act V); a massive all-in brawl, again with the swords, in Act I; and a sex scene as Romeo and Juliet consumate their marriage.

It's also (dare I allude to Joss here) full of jokes amongst the action. The Nurse is prone to providing waaay too much information, "Now by my maidenhead at 12 year old..." "I am the drudge and toil in your delight, but you shall bear the burden soon at night." Mercutio has a mind that is almost as grubby. The speech he makes in Act II scene 1 is a masterpiece of double entendre:

I conjure thee by Rosaline's bright eyes,
By her high forehead and her scarlet lip,
By her fine foot, straight leg and quivering thigh
And the demesnes that there adjacen

VETERAN

Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:39 AM

Bravo Hugh. That was a good read. I never thought about this play from those angles.

About the earlier comment someone made... did Shakespeare write most of his poetry in iambicpentameter?

YINYANG

Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
About the earlier comment someone made... did Shakespeare write most of his poetry in iambicpentameter?

I believe so, yes.

Once a lurker, always a lurker.

TRAVELER

Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:20 AM

My all time favorite is "Much Ado About Nothing".

Good humor and still very dramatic with a bittersweet ending.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

HUGHFF

Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
Bravo Hugh. That was a good read. I never thought about this play from those angles.

About the earlier comment someone made... did Shakespeare write most of his poetry in iambic pentameter?

Thank you.

And the answer is yes....and no. All the sonnets, being sonnets, are iambic pentameter, of course. The dominant form of his plays is blank verse (unrhymed iambic pentameter) but he does vary. For example, the porter's speech in the "Scottish Play" isn't even poetry, it's prose.

www.cpfc.org - my life

AGATSU

Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hughff:
For example, the porter's speech in the "Scottish Play" isn't even poetry, it's prose.

I knew it! What a hack, that Shakespeare fella.
Good read on the R&J interpretation, btw - should help LeopardFlan a bunch, and was very insightful, sensei.

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AGATSU

Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:
My all time favorite is "Much Ado About Nothing".

Good humor and still very dramatic with a bittersweet ending.

I like the movie as well - even better than the read, imho. And yes, I DID read it, but Brannagh really knows his Shakespeare and translates it to the screen beautifully.

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"Dude, you never wanna f*ck with a Browncoat, man." - Kevin Smith

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