River. Answers!!!
POSTED BY: 25MyTurn25
UPDATED: Thursday, January 14, 2010 22:22
VIEWED: 29659
PAGE 6 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Hi 25myturn25,
Very pleased to meet you. Any friend of River is a friend of mine. :)
River, as you know by now, was never on Miranda. In fact, what happened at Miranda happened several years ago. We know this, because Kaylee suddenly remembers the name (after the Maidenhead fight):
Kaylee: Wait a tick; yeah. Some years back there was a call for workers to settle on Miranda.
The mishap with the "pax" (G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate) is the big secret the Allience is afraid River knows (a rather cute name for their 'pacifier', as 'pax', of course, is Latin for 'peace'). And why are they afraid River knows? The Operative lays it all out:
Operative: Do you know what your sin is, Doctor? ... It's Pride.
(Operative shows recording of Dr. Mathias saying to Simon)
Dr. Mathias: Key members of Parliament have personally observed this subject.
(Operative pauses recording)
Operative: "Key members of Parliament." ... Key. The minds behind every diplomatic and covert operation in the galaxy. And you put them in a room with a psychic!
Later, after River woke up from the effects of the safe phrase, she hints to knowing things that are not hers:
River: The memory. It isn't mine. And I shouldn't have to carry it. It isn't mine.
As for "Copper for a kiss", I think it really means: a penny for your thought. As in: "I'd really like to know what you're thinking." I think River is, in fact, referring to Jayne's betrayal, but in a more subtle way than the whole Judas' thing. It's more like a tease; like: "Hmm, wouldn't it be interesting to know what you're thinking?" Like psyching Jayne out. Only River really knows what she meant, of course. :)
"Stupid SOB, dress me up like a Gorram Doll!"
This is an interesting one. :) I do not have the official script (as I am shamefully new to this myself, actually); but maybe she's saying:
"Dress me up like a Gorham doll!"
As Gorham dolls are rare, collectible child dolls. Although "gorram" really does fit the scene better (wasn't she cussing in Chinese, thereafter?). We need an expert in here. Unless there's already an official script proving me wrong; nah mei guan-shee.
P.S. Okay, novacane is wearing off (had an early dental appointment). Time to go to sleep again. :)
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam.
I think the line "dressed me up like a goram doll" is a reference to the fact that Simon has her in a dress and somewhat "fancy", and she doesn't like it....that was how I took it anyway.
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Quote:
I think the line "dressed me up like a goram doll" is a reference to the fact that Simon has her in a dress and somewhat "fancy", and she doesn't like it....that was how I took it anyway.
I hear ya; and I agree. :) Question still remains then: did she mean 'Gorham' doll? Or really 'gorram' doll?
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam.
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I dunno.
I gotta side with the bible refrence betrayal of Jesus for the "Copper for a kiss" line.
The very next word in the script is "Jesu--!" exclaimed by Judas himself (Jayne).
From the Ariel script at:
http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/firefly/season1/firefly-108.htm
RIVER: A copper for a kiss.
(Jayne jumps -- she startled the hell out of him.)
JAYNE: Jesu--! What -- what did you say?
The context definately leads me to think that is the correct refrence.
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dc4bs
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Time Bandits. Great movie.
Ever been with a warrior woman?
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NOTE: LONG POST
I didn't know where to put all this. Mostly I agree with what's been said but there are a few places I combine or differ. Under each heading I explain why. If I'm factually wrong, please correct me.
MIRANDA
Serenity is really when we get to see the "Miranda" flashbacks. At the beginning of the movie (flashback parts), after Simon rescues River and they join the ship (hence "prior" to the series 'firefly') we see flashbacks of River as a child, presumably 'at' 'The Academy' on 'Miranda'. She did go to the Academy, but it wasn't on Miranda.
What happened was (if any of you frequently remember your nightmares you already know):
Because River learned about Miranda, in a horrifying direct mental experience at the Academy, they both become melded together (this fits with Simon's amygdala theory in 'Ariel', about not being able to filter any emotional current).
Later we see her in her metal-plated lab suit walking through the empty classroom, and I think it's pretty clear.
[Her line in her 'flashback', when the teacher interrupts her fiddling during their 'world alliance discussion' {lol, River has ADD} and River says " We're in their homes..(...).and in their minds. And we haven't the right." It's not just a dissident political opinion when interpreted this way.
She's referring to herself. The Alliance is in her mind, taking away her childhood, her memories of home, her concept of herself as a being, as separate from the Alliance and what they've done to her(besides the horrible experiments themselves).
But, going back to why the secret of Miranda is even more horrifying to her confused mind: as she is an 'agent' now of the Alliance, she is ***partly responsible for the events on Miranda***. In her 'dream' she was going to the Academy, being forced to learn all this--all jumbled up in the training, whatever they were experimenting on her for.
The reason for her mind just 'shutting off' sometimes---the swearing strings, the blank stares, the refusal to communicate even in metaphors---always seem to happen when someone she is emotionally attatched to (Mal, Simon, Kaylee) is around and not 'protecting' her.
COPPER FOR A KISS
There are constant ancient greek references around Simon--his field of logic, medicine etc.
So I think the coin in mouth has some vaidity.
I think, if I'm allowed to, that if not literary (I thought that too!), It's a mix of
Depening on the level/depth of Joss Whedon's knowledge of several sources, it could mix:
1.) The Jesus Reference ( it was 30 pieces of silver, not copper, then,) just like Jayne who once caught by the feds, tried to go back on his plan. Judas threw his payment back at the feet of Jesus' accusers later on that night. But he comes to a bad end: he bought a field with the money and committed suicide there.
Apt metaphor, if this was intended.
2.) The coin in the mouths of children. This is really good, Rhiyanan. The fact that they are in morgue cases (coffins), and "wake up" from being 'dead'---helpless and innocent (like children) at the hands of Jayne
(WHAT WAS MAL THINKING? LEAVE JAYNE WITH THEM IN THE SAME EPISODE? WHY JAYNE?)
who was about to be really dispicable and sell them out. River knows their death warrants (or something worse) have been signed when she wakes up #1 in a central planet hospital morgue=do not want and #2, the first (and only) person in sight is ol' Jayne.
In it's form and pronunciation by River it recalls the episode with Badger(before or after), where she creates the cockney-dialect diversion for them, and placates Badger from being a lot more harsh. She's the 'poor guttersnipe' who knows they're doin her wrong, but can't do anything about it.
3.)Another possible biblical reference: One of Jesus' parables talks about an old widow who puts in the collection plate for the poor her last two copper coins, as an example of true generosity and sacrifice for the Lord. The amount is not 'less' because it is 'all she has'. So, relating to this is point 4.). Might be mixed in with
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#2 "A copper for a kiss." I alway took as meaning the same as " A penny for your thoughts." since she catches Jayne staring down the tube lost in thought.
Z
Edit: Man I just noticed this threads over 2 years old.....holy smoly!
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I just had a strange thought. Perhaps it was mentioned above, but I didn't re-read the whole thread.
What if "Copper for a kiss" is a mixed metaphor? The "copper" part could mean 'policeman' rather than 'coin', while the "kiss" is (as many have suggested) the kiss of betrayal (Jesus and/or organized crime).
River could be saying that she knows Jayne was in the process of selling her out to the Alliance, but the message is lost in the layers of metaphor.
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I'm pointin' right at it!
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I always thought the "copper for a kiss" line was a reference to an event in Jayne's past that we have yet to learn or may never learn about.
Darksiders can keep their cookies. We have better writers.
Grrr. Argghh.Patiently waiting to see Cap'n Hammerpants sing!
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i also wondered why jubal early saying that maybe he is santa clause coming down the chimmney with presents.. or something to that effect. i wondered if he also went to "the academy" when he was young. he was just as strange as river
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Bowie, Doncoat and all the rest: A most impressive analysis on everyone;s part.
For me, it shows the depth of writing and of the characters. With River there is just so much to see if she is talking purely in metaphor. It may be her mind can only relate to childhood imagery, trying to put it in adult times but not quite capable of getting there. Instead, putting out mature observations in terms she understood (or not understood) as a child. When she was whole and sane.
None of the crew can really get into her zone, with the exception of her comments on cows in SAFE, so they only see unconnected ramblings. Of course we can't get too serious in analysis. Why would anyone understand that it takes 8.3 seconds to drain the blood from a human body, given adequate suctioning systems?
My hat's off to Tima and Joss and the others for the quality of dialog, the applicabilty to everyday living and breadth of feeling they convey.
"Buried in layers of psychosis."
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