Ran into a guy from Fox at the airport
POSTED BY: biggestdamnhero
UPDATED: Sunday, June 1, 2008 15:35
VIEWED: 29653
PAGE 10 of 13
Somewhere out there are probably folks who are still pissed off that I Love Lucy was cancelled. As a Browncoat I would definitely NOT want to be associated with a group of people that has a general reputation for being either hostile or cultish. We don't have THAT reputation...yet...but if more folks behaved so rudely as in this incident, we would be stuck with that label forever. Remember what Shatner said while spoofing ST Fandom..." Get a life! "....People like Joss or Nathan would never say that.....now....but if our quiet and personal longings for more Firefly ever cross the line between mature behavior and boorish fanatiscism, then our movement will be over.
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Nice one. That's one Fox employee who will now think Firefly fans are rude and obnoxious a**holes.
The people responsible for the cancellation have all left Fox since it happened anyway, so why be rude to someone who wasn't responsible?
Joss and Tim Minear were the ones who changed the running order of the show, not Fox. You don't even know what the hell you were talking about before being an a**hole!
If there was any remaining chance of anything coming back based on the Firefly 'verse (remote at best), it's behaviour like this that will get those plans shelved.
Grow up. That goes for everyone that is high-fiving 'biggestdamnhero' over this. It's s**t like this that makes the sensible majority of the Firefly fans look bad.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kadoogan:
Joss and Tim Minear were the ones who changed the running order of the show, not Fox. You don't even know what the hell you were talking about before being an a**hole!
This is one of the "myths" of the fandom that has been perpetuated since the beginning. I remember when I first arrived I believed that the eps were reordered by Fox, that the movie was greenlit because the fandom brought it about ( the movie was greenlit before the sales of the Firefly DVD's made any difference, so fan action didn't bring it about ), our "done the impossible" mentality has been repeated over and over again until it's legend has grown beyond what people know to be fact.
This has concerned me a lot lately. I've read all over the 'Verse the truth about these things, yet I don't see anyone putting it in print where all the fans can have that knowledge too. I've wanted to say it, but feared backlash over it as well.
How do you say these truths, that negate so very much about what this fandom thinks it did?
I think it's much better to work from a center of true knowledge in a quest for anything. If you want more Firefly/Serenity it's important to know what's been done ( lots and lots and most of it didn't work ) and what is the truth about what did work. Then you can think of new things that no one has ever thought of before or tried. You also are armed with the knowledge necessary not to make the mistake of pissing off a Fox employee who might have gotten a different opinion. You will think of things that are positive for the fandom knowing what has gone before and what our reputation is.
Knowing these truths does not negate the fact that the DVD's of both Firefly and Serenity sell like hotcakes. That fan action is of utmost benefit. In fact it's the language the folks who can give us more understand the best.
Another plus side fan action is the CSTS screenings- which both do good works and quietly position us for more. Any and all Browncoat charities benefit both us and others. Local groups and our shindigs and get togethers keep us a connected and caring community.
There's lots of things we can do and lots of ways we can be. Positive action will get us more than negative action.
ETA for clarification:
To the best of my knowledge from facts I've gleaned from reading posts by Browncoats here at the beginning and a few "inside the business" Browncoats ( please don't mistake that I have first hand knowledge of this ) although the movie was greenlit and fans didn't have any more to do with getting Serenity than Joss or Mary Parent it was fan action that promoted the movie when Uni didn't do exactly a stellar job of that ( Uni requested that the fans help viral market the movie ) and it was the fans who bought ( in record #'s ) and spread the word of the Firefly DVD's thus encouraging Uni that they'd certainly made the right decision re: Serenity. I don't want to in any way diminish what the fans did do.
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Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:Quote:
Originally posted by Kadoogan:
Joss and Tim Minear were the ones who changed the running order of the show, not Fox. You don't even know what the hell you were talking about before being an a**hole!
This is one of the "myths" of the fandom that has been perpetuated since the beginning. I remember when I first arrived I believed that the eps were reordered by Fox, that the movie was greenlit because the fandom brought it about ( the movie was greenlit before the sales of the Firefly DVD's made any difference, so fan action didn't bring it about ), our "done the impossible" mentality has been repeated over and over again until it's legend has grown beyond what people know to be fact.
This has concerned me a lot lately. I've read all over the 'Verse the truth about these things, yet I don't see anyone putting it in print where all the fans can have that knowledge too. I've wanted to say it, but feared backlash over it as well.
How do you say these truths, that negate so very much about what this fandom thinks it did?
I think it's much better to work from a center of true knowledge in a quest for anything. If you want more Firefly/Serenity it's important to know what's been done ( lots and lots and most of it didn't work ) and what is the truth about what did work. Then you can think of new things that no one has ever thought of before or tried. You also are armed with the knowledge necessary not to make the mistake of pissing off a Fox employee who might have gotten a different opinion. You will think of things that are positive for the fandom knowing what has gone before and what our reputation is.
Knowing these truths does not negate the fact that the DVD's of both Firefly and Serenity sell like hotcakes. That fan action is of utmost benefit. In fact it's the language the folks who can give us more understand the best.
Another plus side fan action is the CSTS screenings- which both do good works and quietly position us for more. Any and all Browncoat charities benefit both us and others. Local groups and our shindigs and get togethers keep us a connected and caring community.
There's lots of things we can do and lots of ways we can be. Positive action will get us more than negative action.
ETA for clarification:
To the best of my knowledge from facts I've gleaned from reading posts by Browncoats here at the beginning and a few "inside the business" Browncoats ( please don't mistake that I have first hand knowledge of this ) although the movie was greenlit and fans didn't have any more to do with getting Serenity than Joss or Mary Parent it was fan action that promoted the movie when Uni didn't do exactly a stellar job of that ( Uni requested that the fans help viral market the movie ) and it was the fans who bought ( in record #'s ) and spread the word of the Firefly DVD's thus encouraging Uni that they'd certainly made the right decision re: Serenity. I don't want to in any way diminish what the fans did do.
To quote Mal... "Huh."
That's rather a major shift to my own worldview, FM. I certainly appreciate knowing the truth of the thing, even if it's not the "truth" I've clung to, for so long. Do we have any citations or other documentation of these statements? Not that I don't trust your word, far from it! I would just like to be able to point other folks in the correct direction, should it come up.
And, just to make sure I understand what your saying VERY clearly: Joss and Tim caused the episodes to air out of order? The BDM was greenlit before we fans had time to do anything to influence that decision?
'Cause, I know you're taking a big chance, saying that, and, if I don't want to be burned as a witch for repeating that, I want to be able to back up the truth with some proof.
Still, what we Browncoats believe about ourselves is powerful and important to who we are and what we do, sort of like the folklore that drives a nation. It may not be truthsome, but, it
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I just double checked because I thought my brain must be missing.... but on the commentary for The Train Job - Joss says this at the beginning (may be missing a word here or there - I type fast but not THAT fast)..
The pilot was not aired until the very end of the series and Fox came to us and said hey we want an idea for a new show what if we aired something else first. And then on Friday afternoon, they called us and said Ok, Joss and Tim, we want a script by Monday and it has to be on our desks before we get in in the morning. So we had exactly two days to write an entire show... that introduced 9 characters who had very complicated lives and relationships..
Tim and Joss refer to "they" whenever they bring up the "aired it first" topic - if it was their decision surely they would have been saying "we"?
SO...according to Joss himself - FOX DID ask for a new ep to be aired before the pilot - not Joss. They also gave them next to no time to write it.
And I'm only going by what I heard here - but weren't the epsiodes also broken up because of something else being on tv - so they weren't on consistently every week - and was there a possible time change in there as well that contributed to the problem?
Just trying to get all the facts lined up here... not trying to argue with anyone. This is the first I've ever heard anyone say it was Joss' idea to air the eps out of order...
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I think a whole lot of you guys are missing one crucial point. This guy didn't just hurt whatever chance might still exist of getting more from the 'Verse, he may have also damaged Joss's standing with the network as a whole, which could lead to really bad consequences for 'Dollhouse', although since Eliza's helping to produce the series, I think the network is going to be less 'trigger-happy' as it were when it comes to the series, especially since they already demonstrated their faith in her, Joss, and the concept by ordering 7 eps based on a * pitch *.
Check out the continuing adventures of the Big Damn Heroes of Joss Whedon's Firefly in [url= http://www.stillflying.net]Virtual Firefly: Here's How It Might Have Been[/url]
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Well Done......
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Honestly, if Fox became severely butthurt because of ONE guy, then they're idiots to begin with and probably too fickle to deal with anyway. Sure, honey is better than...whatever the metaphor is--lemon?--but whatever. Just learn from his incident and give Fox execs more honey to compensate. We don't need to hang this guy or anything, geez louise. He didn't doom us all. No ONE person is gonna ruin our chances except unless joss says "No more."
Just gonna say this, since it seems almost unfair that people are jumping all over him. We weren't there--he was. We don't know how he was (whether he was as rude as you guys think or if he just spoke his mind and the guy over-reacted), nor can we assume that someone's *posting* behavior on the internet equates to his behavior in the real world. Yes, he probably deserved some scolding for badmouthing FM or our fandom in general, but when we start name calling him (calling him an idiot) we're just lowering ourselves. I mean, really? I thought we were better than that--we ain't five years old! Let it go :)
What's done is done--we can't change that by getting all...bendy. Can't we all just get along? :)
--Faith
"I can't get it right...get it right...since I met you."
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In my opinion, there's no justification for being a jack*ss, and especially not towards a complete stranger who unfortunately works for a network that screwed over a large and very passionate group of fans (us Browncoats). What this guy did gives all Browncoats - and fans of any TV series/production in general - a bad name, and, in this case, it not only hurts the chance of FF coming back, it also could possibly hurt Joss's current project (like I already said).
Check out the continuing adventures of the Big Damn Heroes of Joss Whedon's Firefly in [url= http://www.stillflying.net]Virtual Firefly: Here's How It Might Have Been[/url]
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Quote:
Originally posted by FaithLovesPurple:
Yes, he probably deserved some scolding for badmouthing FM or our fandom in general, but when we start name calling him (calling him an idiot) we're just lowering ourselves.
He can badmouth me, FLP...this is a public board and I stated my opinion just like he did. He and I seemed to come to an understanding of where we both stood. :-) I left the conversation satisfied I'd said my piece and he had said his. When he posted what he did, he invited approval I'd wager. He may have even thought he'd get only approval... but some of us disagreed with him. That's the way of discussions.
I don't approve of name calling either or of saying mean things to each other. I think conversation that explores the sides everyone brings to the table is better. :-)
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