Our President

POSTED BY: howdyrockerbaby1
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 21, 2025 16:36
VIEWED: 49385
PAGE 18 of 24

At this point, I'm going to bow out of discussion because I might post something really offensive.

If you have any questions, or you want some POLITICAL, MILITARY, or MACROECONOMIC predictions, I'll be happy to answer them if I feel I have something to say. (Unfortuantely, I don't spend as much time trying to predict the stock market, my stock picks make only about 10-50% so I won't post them!)

Happy discussion, happy FF watching!

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Simulpost.

So, SignyM, it was you that inspired all the green effluvium? Why, because you suggested that a President of the United States could be a cynical, self-interested politician? OMFG! Is that all it takes to be considered a conspiracy theorist these days??? What is this, the court of Louis xiv?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Yes, it was I (sigh). However, note that I left Bush off the chain of command. The poor fellow really thinks he's bringing God's democracy to Iraq. Bush doesn't make a decision until after speaking with Cheney, and it was Cheney who brought Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Feith into the Pentagon, Bolton into the State Department (Undersecretary) and Abrams into the NSC. This is what got him so hot and bothered.
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Well, nobody responded.

OK, I'm going to have a "Mal" moment here- when I believe in nothing and reveal my true inner bitterness.

You might wonder why I'm telling YOU. It's because I believe that I undertsand Mal, and so some of you might understand me too.

Mal is the ultimate realist. His beliefs- in God, in the concern of the authorities, in the might of justice, the providence of Nature, the essential goodness human beings - were burned away in the crucible of experience.

While I can't claim to have Mal's battlefield experience, I've had many "Mal" moments- in my touch with insanity when I had to make a conscious choice to believe in my senses, when my daughter was born with a brain bleed so severe the doctors thought she would die or be profoundly retarded and when they threw up their hands six years later and said "We're up a creek without a paddle", when my MIL died on my watch and I was there for her agonal breaths, and then the same thing happened with my dad- who saw more as a Pole in WWII than you would ever want to be burdened with, when I had to pick up a gun and sit on a friend's porch waiting for the stalker to come by, when I saw "Hearts and Minds" and finally connected with the pain of our victims.

Most Americans (70%) are incapable of independent thought. I believe you are different.

Having lived nearly 50 years, I have the benefit of remembering Vietnam... and Grenada, and Panama, Afghanistan, and Gulf War I, and Gulf War II. Grenada, Panama, Afghanistan, and Gulf War II were all strangely similar. First, the Administration would announce that they "suddenly" found a problem: Grenada had a stockpile of Cuban weapons, Noriega was a big "drug runner", Afghanistan was harboring ObL, Saddam had WMD. There would be the drumbeat to war. It was urgent. It was a severe threat to the USA. It had to be taken care of RIGHT AWAY. No delay was allowed! Not a year! Not a month! Not even a week!

The timing was all off because it was all pre-planned. Folks- don't look at the content of the headlines, look at the timing if you want to see what's going on.

So here we are: the threat of Grenada has been neutralized, the tide of drugs had been stemmed, ObL has been captured, and those WMD have been destroyed. Right?

I'm just going to add a couple more things- for those who have followed me tihs far.

None of the above makes sense if you think that Republicans Presidents, and THIS President and his neocon administration (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, Perle, Wurmser, Feith, Libby, Abrams) lay awake at night worrying about us and the future of the USA.

The answer to my question- If I could see [9/11] why couldn't Cheney? - is that of course he could see it. He just didn't give a damn, and he still doesn't. Other administration folks have written extensively about how getting rid of Saddam would make the world safe- for Israel. I could give you links to the papers if you want- it's all published.

One of them- Wurmser- even postulated years before the fact that Chalabi would make a good puppet government. (also published). And of course Wurmser and Feith set up that "Office of Special Plans" that funneled "special" intelligence (from Chalabi and probably from Mossad) to Cheney outside of the normal CIA and military intelligence channels. The point of this is:

Please, disabuse yourselves of the notion that these people lay awake and worry about the USA. I do- they don't.

One other point- some of you folks are in the military, some are died-in-the-wool libertarians, some are leftover Confederate rebels. The one thing you all have in common

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Ruxton:
Seems to me SignyM was able to make predictions based on his (her?) personal research. It matters not where he got the facts, as long as they showed him the path to be able to make such accurate predictions. Can you not do the same?

.......Ruxton

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It always matters where someone got the facts. That's how you know whether or not they're really facts. If I say I got a fact from Mad Magazine, Seventeen, Time or The Nation, which one do you think is going to be more reliable? Jason Blair and Stephen Glass made their information up. Sources always matter.

And please, people, cut the egos. I echo Jasonzzz's barfing, although I barf for different reasons. Anyone who disagrees with you is "incapable of independent thought"? Everyone here is capable of independent thought. That's why we post. Some people on this thread seem to believe that "because you're stupid and I'm smart" is a great argument.

People's spelling, educational background, age and location doesn't make them smarter or dumber than anyone else. Up the maturity level a little and talk like grownups.



"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Steve580, Jasonzz is a perfect example of why I think that most Americans are incapable of independent thought. (Or, in Jasonzz case, any thought at all.)

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SignyM, here's an independent though straight from me and direct to you

Don't bother, yours was "Ad Hominem" and so was mine.

Quote:

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Originally posted by SignyM:


With no facts on his side, Jasonzz spews. What he's doing here... "I know next you'll be talking about...Jews... Illuminati... NASA...kidney..." is called the straw man argument- putting words into my mouth because he can't rebut what I REALLY said.

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All conspiracy theory crap sounds alike to me and all equally entertainment in a keystone cop sort of way. If the shoe fits, wear it. If the examples offered are similar enough, good enough for me.

BTW, it would have been a "non-sequitur" if you didn't think you believe the similar sort of crap, but since you called it a "Straw Man", you joined the fun and labeled yourself.

Quote:

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Originally posted by SignyM:


This part ... "folks read it, laugh out loud at the sort of idiot who take this shit for real and waste their little hamster cage cycles rattling on about useless crap..." is called "begging the question".

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Oh yeah, I was "begging the question" there alright. I wrongly assumed that you had any hamster cage to begin with.

Quote:

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Originally posted by SignyM:


In other words, he uses his ASSUMPTION as the proof of his assumption. They're pretty easy rhetorical dodges to spot, once you know what you're looking for you'll see them all the time in right-wing opinion-pieces and papers like The Federalist.

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and stop throwing "Red Herrings". Take the argument like a man and following it along. Stop dodging the crap. If you can't deal with it, get on.

Quote:

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Originally posted by SignyM:


Unlike Jasonzz, I at least TRY to discern reality.

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Wow, "Hasty Generalization", "post hoc", "False Analogy". Wanna go for four next time?

Quote:

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Originally posted by SignyM:

So, as proof of my other post, here is information about Feith, Wurmser, Perle, Wolfowitz et al with references to their actual works in such radical, conspiracy-minded publications as The Wall Street Journal. Just so you don't have to, I DID look up these references, they're bona fide. And to provide context, here is the chain of command:

Cheney
Rumsfeld
Wolfowitz
Feith
Wurmser

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"Wurmser would be the founding participant of the unnamed, secret intelligence unit at the Pentagon, set up in Feith's office (OSP)... While the CIA and other intelligence agencies concentrated on Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda as the culprit in the 9/11 attacks, Paul D. Wolfowitz and Feith obsessively focused on Iraq. For years... [Feith] had been... beating the drums for war against Iraq. Along with Perle and Feith, in 1996 Wurmser and his wife, Meyrav, wrote a provocative strategy paper for Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu called 'A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm.' It called on Israel to work with Jordan and Turkey to 'contain, destabilize and roll back' various states in the region, overthrow Saddam Hussein in Iraq, press Jordan to restore a scion of the Hashemite dynasty to the Iraqi throne, and, above all, launch military assaults against Lebanon and Syria as a 'prelude to a redrawing of the map of the Middle East which would threaten Syria's territorial integrity.'

"In 1997, Wurmser wrote a column in the Wall Street Journal called 'Iraq Needs a Revolution' and the next year co-signed a letter with Perle calling for all-out U.S. support of the Iraqi National Congress (INC), an exile group led by Ahmad Chalabi, in promoting an insurgency in Iraq.

At AEI, Wurmser wrote 'Tyranny's Ally: America's Failure to Defeat Saddam Hussein', essentially a book-length version of 'A Clean Break' that proposed an alliance betw

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