That's what governments are for- get in a man's way...what's so hard to understand here?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Thursday, April 10, 2008 21:15
VIEWED: 4817
PAGE 1 of 6

1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT PAGE

CHRISISALL

Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:48 PM

A government is like a big immature teenager; it wants what it want when it wants it. No government is above breakin' it's own laws to suit itself, heck, they just make 'executive decisions' or flat out rewrite the laws as they see fit (Patriot Act anyone?).
Many peeps hereabouts like to defend Bush, Cheney, Clinton, the government in general...way I see it, government is like pesticide; ya don't like to use it, but thar be bugs. Then they get resistant, so ya have to use more.
Why all the worship of systems that are inherently corrupt on some level- that see nothing wrong with trampling on the little guy if they feel the need?
Is 'do as I say, not as I do' so acceptable to some?
It's a necessary evil to be sure, but it's still an evil (remember, figure of speech here...).
What's wrong with saying "We have about the best system that can be devised to work on such a large scale, yet it still contains many flaws that may be worked out over time, with the proper attention & action."???
Why do some need to call this attitude 'anti-American', or 'commie', or 'anti-government'?
Is acknowledging a problem a sign of weakness or active hatred?

Does attending to a toothache mean that you're anti-you?

Was Mal exaggerating?

Perplexed Chrisisall

GEEZER

Sunday, March 30, 2008 10:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Is acknowledging a problem a sign of weakness or active hatred?

Depends on how you note what you consider the problem. "I'm concerned about possible loss of freedoms in the war on terror" is a bit different from "Bush=Hitler". One invites discussion, the other rejects all but total agreement.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

CHRISISALL

Sunday, March 30, 2008 10:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

One invites discussion, the other rejects all but total agreement.

A very good answer, Geez.
Still, some things are absolutely wrong, from many perspectives...like the whole WMD thing, basing a response to a perceived threat on faulty/incomplete/wishful evidence is a mistake, by any standard. Why defend such a cavalier mentality?
The same applies to Clinton, btw, as if he did no wrong either...most Presidents serve the people...but as a side dish to the main meal IMO.

Enquiring Chrisisall

GINOBIFFARONI

Monday, March 31, 2008 12:35 AM

Think about it as a twelve step program,

The first step being admit there is a problem...

How many American leaders admit their mistakes ? or even the mistakes made by leaders before them ?

Everyone makes mistakes, or does things for the wrong reasons, but by not publicly acknowledging that an error was made, it seems to me to leave the door open to do the same dumb bullshit over and over again, largely to the same result... resentment and outright hatred in the case of your foreign policy.

This goes beyond Bush and Clinton or Dem or Repub.... and someday it has to come to a end

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

KIRKULES

Monday, March 31, 2008 2:24 AM

I'm not anti-government, I'm anti-BIG government. Most of the problems I have with the government result from it's size, not it's leaders. I love to trash Clinton as much as the next guy, but if it wasn't for his personal flaws and the fact that he continued to grow the size of government, I'd have to admit he was a decent President. Bush's biggest negative in my opinion is the same as Clinton's, he has allowed the government to grown exessivly and added new entitlements(prescription drugs) and buracracies(Dept. Homeland Security).

Big government results in the inefficient use of resources and leads to bureaucracies that think their primary purpose is to justify their own existence for the next budget cycle.

Some like to say you can't solve a problem by throwing cash at it, but I'm not so sure. Can you imagine the amount of money we spend each year on worthless bureaucrats. If you took that money and just dumped it out of helicopters over impoverished areas do you think it would help less than the pittance those areas get now after the bureaucrats take their cut.

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, March 31, 2008 3:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I see it, government is like pesticide; ya don't like to use it, but thar be bugs. Then they get resistant, so ya have to use more.

Then there is Monsanto pesticide. It is so toxic it kills not just pests, but other plants and then the soil itself. Nothing else can grow after you use their pesticide. So the only way to stay in business to to buy Monsanto pesticide-resistant seeds, which is marketed by, yes you guessed it, Monsanto.

Most government solutions serve to make you dependent on more government solutions. Just like Monsanto.

Quote:
Was Mal exaggerating?

Nope.

The question is, WHY do they want to get in a man's way? The answer is simple: control = power = wealth = power = wealth. That is why the easiest thing in the world is for wealthy conglomerates (like corporations) and government to end up being the same thing.

--------------------------
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.
--Mahatma Gandhi

KWICKO

Monday, March 31, 2008 3:21 PM

Quote:
Big government results in the inefficient use of resources and leads to bureaucracies that think their primary purpose is to justify their own existence for the next budget cycle.

Some like to say you can't solve a problem by throwing cash at it, but I'm not so sure. Can you imagine the amount of money we spend each year on worthless bureaucrats. If you took that money and just dumped it out of helicopters over impoverished areas do you think it would help less than the pittance those areas get now after the bureaucrats take their cut.

Good points. Think of this example:

The good people who work for the welfare department in this country have one stated goal:
Make sure no one needs welfare in this country.

The irony, of course, is that, if they do their job to 100% completion... they're out of a job, and have to go on welfare!

And so the cycle of bureaucracy begins afresh...

I like your idea of 'Copter Cash, though. Let's see if we can get a referendum on it, set up a committee to study its efficacy, mainstream it into an earmarked program in next year's fiscal projections, and set up a Cabinet-level position to oversee the new Department of Airborne Monetary Needs, or DAMN.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, March 31, 2008 3:48 PM

It's simple, all Government is... is a set of rules and laws.

Rules and laws initially created to protect and benefit people as a whole.

Over time, due to the way any authoritarian society is run, in fact MUST be run, in order to function...

These rules, multiply, expand, and in the doing somehow become more important than the people as a whole they were intended to protect and benefit.

And the enforcers of them quickly devolve from protectors to oppressors and predators.

Usually about this time a revolution occurs, and the more efforts put into trying to prevent it, the more damaging it is when it does happen.

This cycle, it's ever been with us, in fact our Founders counted on it, and even codified it to a degree with an elections process.

A VERY good example of planned cycle thinking is the Moties from Niven & Pournelles The Mote in Gods Eye - their whole society is built around that cycle.

And once you understand this concept, this cycle, you'll realize why I cannot support any authoritarian society - because it simply will not endure, all such societies are temporary in nature and eventually implode with great destruction.

Me, I would rather break that cycle than feed it or reboot it.

Just call me Crazy Eddie.

-Frem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mote_in_God%27s_Eye

HERO

Monday, March 31, 2008 5:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Why do some need to call this attitude 'anti-American', or 'commie', or 'anti-government'?
Is acknowledging a problem a sign of weakness or active hatred?

Thats just the kinda question I'd expect from an anti-American-pinko-Commie-anarchist.

I'm not saying thats you...I'm just sayin I'd expect that kinda question from one whose motives were suspect at best.

And I'm not sayin your motives are suspect...I'm just sayin that its the kinda thing I'd expect to hear from someone who would gladly kill and consume tasty babies because baby meat is low in fat.

And I'm not sayin you'd kill and eat babies...I'm just sayin that I hear this kind of stuff from folks who want to drive drunk and shoot guns.

And I'm not sayin you go around all drunk and shooting and driving and such...I'm just sayin that this kinda thinking is common among folk with less then a full grasp on their mental faculties.

And I'm not sayingn yer a nutter...I'm just sayin that when it comes to government, shit happens, somebody's got to take care of it, and who ya gonna call?

I am saying the government is the Ghostbusters of the modern world and if you stand in their way you deserve to get crushed by a Giant Al-Queda Marshmellow Man...and you sir and your liberal anarchist Commie-Pinko Baby-eating motives-in-question drunk-driver buddies are the Gatekeeper and Keymaster to Stay-Puff madness and you can say what you want about me...but I for one will not stand by and listen to you bad mouth the United States, Gentleman...(walks out)

I don't think I can be any clearer. Nuff said.

Edited to add: Drinking at lunch...not a good idea. Well, can't be helped now...off to court I go!

H

KWICKO

Monday, March 31, 2008 5:42 PM

Quote:
Just call me Crazy Eddie.

But sometimes a Crazy Eddie solution is the ONLY solution!

Love that book. Love LOTS of Niven & Pournelle's stuff.

And Hero: No more drinking in DUI court! It just seems so... CRUEL... to those you're prosecuting!

1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT PAGE